New York Jets – Training Camp Expectations

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With the New York Jets one month away from training camp, let’s take a look at a few things to expect when the action picks up in Cortland.

Disagree? Let’s hear it in the comment section, on Twitter or on Facebook.

1 – Geno Smith: Starting Quarterback - Marty Mornhinweg has already confirmed Smith will be taking 70-75% of the first team reps throughout camp, which shouldn’t have been a surprise to anybody. There has been endless misconceptions perpetuated about the Jets quarterback position throughout this offseason. There was never a chance Mark Sanchez was coming back. There was never consideration given to selecting a quarterback on day one or day two of the draft. After the way Geno Smith finished the season, the decision was to ride with him as the likely starter but to provide a stronger insurance policy than Sanchez or Matt Simms gave last year. Mike Vick fit the role of a capable veteran, who knew Mornhinweg’s offense and could step in off the bench if needed. The team also believed his skill set would push Smith an appropriate amount this offseason and that it would prevent any type of “coddling” mindset that plagued their handling of Sanchez.

So be prepared for Smith spending most of his time with the first team offense in practice, starting the first preseason game and unless an injury or an unexpected meltdown occurs, starting week 1 of the regular season. I’m sure there will be a time in the preseason when Vick torches a second string defense and there will be loud calls for him to start but ultimately Geno should hold on to this job.

2 – Plenty of Jeff Cumberland – The coaching staff remains high on Cumberland’s potential and his role in the 2014 offense will demonstrate that. Jace Amaro is going to be a Swiss Army knife for Mornhinweg, lining up in the slot, at split end, in the backfield and at the traditional tight end spot. Cumberland will see plenty of reps as the in-line tight end and also get his reps split out or flexed to H-Back. Get used to seeing Cumberland and Amaro sharing the field. In the passing game, the team’s top four targets are likely to be Eric Decker, Jeremy Kerley, Chris Johnson and Amaro. Cumberland is the most likely to be the fifth option after them, not a wide receiver.

3 – David Nelson: On the Roster – Nelson gets limited buzz and interest from many fans because he isn’t a burner and is not known as a “big play” guy. Regardless, he is easily the team’s third best wide receiver behind Decker and Kerley. There is no reason to cast off a 6’5 27 year old who was the team’s best receiver the final four games of 2013, has demonstrated chemistry with Geno Smith and has a 60+ reception season under his belt in the NFL. Nelson saw a nice chunk of first team reps in minicamp and while there is limited targets in a run heavy offense behind the five players mentioned in point #2, Nelson will be on the team and should see a decent amount of playing time throughout the season.

4 – Heroes of Spring – I’ve been amazed by the level of hype around Jacoby Ford, who was a veteran minimum signing the team brought in this offseason. The speed is eye catching, particularly with no equipment on and yes, he was a terrific kick returner…in 2010. Few people seem to remember Ford has really done much of nothing in the NFL since then. Was he worth taking a cheap flier on? Sure. Could he impress enough in the summer to force his way on to the roster as the primary kick returner and a depth wide receiver? It isn’t impossible. However, it is more likely he won’t make the team, than stick on the final 53.

Ras I-Dowling is another player generating excitement, although his chance of sticking on the final 53 is better than Ford, it is worth tempering expectations for him. Dimitri Patterson should start opposite of Dee Milliner until Dexter McDougle is ready for an expanded role. If Patterson can’t stay healthy and Dowling himself can stay healthy, he could push for playing time along with Darrin Walls, who has a jump of already knowing the defense on him.

Stephen Hill received his share of glowing practice reviews, which isn’t new to his career. We will hold off getting all that excited until the games start. Hill is probably going to make the final 53 but has a bigger uphill battle than many may think.

5 – Questions Worth Watching…

- If Antwan Barnes can’t get back healthy for training camp, could he lose his roster spot to Jermaine Cunningham?

- Will Willie Colon be full go for camp? And if not, will Oday Aboushi see 100% of the starting reps in his place or will Dakota Dozier get a look?

- Will Shaq Evans or Quincy Enunwa get a phantom “injury” if it appears they aren’t going to make the final 53, so they could be placed on IR and stashed for next season?

- How long can veteran roster longshots like Greg Salas, Clyde Gates, Alex Green and Matt Simms hold on to a spot?

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Since the Quincy Enunwa analysis fell off page 1 & he is mentioned here, I’m going to re-post this:

    http://youtu.be/OG58FA_zbsQ

    Enunwa & Evans have way too much potential, imo, to risk trying to sneak them onto the PS in order to give Hill another chance.

  • Justin C.

    Has anyone started making early 53 man roster predictions yet? I was wondering who everyone thinks will make the team, who will be surprisingly cut, and who will be placed on the practice squad. I cannot cut down passed fifty six spots because I like so many of the players. This is what I have so far:
    QB: Smith, Vick, Boyd
    RB: Ivory, Johnson, Powell, Richardson
    FB: Bohanon/Young
    WR: Decker, Kerley, Hill, Nelson, Evans, Saunders
    TE: Cumberland, Amaro, Sudfeld
    OL: Ferguson, Giacomini, Ijalana, Colon, Winters, Aboushi, Dozier, Mangold, Freeman
    DL: Wilkerson, Richardson, Douzable, Harrison, Ellis, Hyder
    LB: Harris, Pace, Davis, Coples, George, Cunningham, McIntyre, Enemkpali, Bellore, Reilly
    S: Landry, Pryor, Allen, Bush/Miles/Jarrett
    CB: Milliner, Patterson, McDougle, Wilson, Dowling, Lankster, Walls
    K: Folk
    P: Quigley/Schum
    LS: Purdum
    Practice Squad: Enunwa, Campbell, Divitto, Dixon
    Thoughts? What is everyone else predicting for a 53 man or close to 53 man (like mine) roster?

  • JetOrange

    @ Justin, I think you have more than 53….
    IMHO Marty is looking for a speed guy in his WR corp. to stretch defenses , keep safeties out of the box, and give a vertical element to his offense. Think about the impact that DeSean Jackson had on the Eagle offense, Ford, Hakim, Saunders and Gates (ugh) are certainly not Jackson, but Marty has an appreciation of deep speed. I am not sure if Saunders is your speed guy, or if at 170 he can last an entire NFL season. If Ford shows anything,it will be Ford over Nelson. The problem that Nelson has is that Evans is the same guy but gives you Special Teams, and has that upside potential. I also think Amaro does some of the same things that Nelson does, that doesn’t help his cause

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  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    JJ..a video showing me he’s does a 58″ box jump is impressive, but it doesn’t tell me anything about him catching the football. No doubt the guy has some unreal measurables, but so does Hill. Yes, Hill has had 2yrs here. However, he’s <1y older than Quincy, and you can argue injuries and limitations at the QB position have hampered his growth. No doubt he has a lot to prove. But, the idea there is 'risk' of losing a compensatory 6th round pick because of his athleticism is a stretch, to me. Every team knew who he was, and had ample time to pick him. 27 WR were taken before him. Sure, if he goes out and has a stellar camp, there would be some suitors. But, if he does that he'll make the NYJ.

    The most important thing for this TC, is the first point. For this team to have success, Geno needs to build off of his December performance. You can't win, in this league, without good QB play. Who is the 3rd WR, how many 2 TE sets, and how many balls CJ catches are fun conversations. However, unless the QB play is good, it's not likely you'll here much about them during the season.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Lidman, I didn’t say that it was a risk because he has a 58″ box jump. I think its a risk because I’ve watched the available film on both Evans & Enunwa & see their potential. If you want a sense of how Enunwa’s athleticism translates into playmaking ability, watch the play here: http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2014/04/08/boiler-room-nebraska-wr-quincy-enunwa/

    “But, the idea there is ‘risk’ of losing a compensatory 6th round pick because of his athleticism is a stretch, to me. Every team knew who he was, and had ample time to pick him” is really one of your more ridiculous statements. Every year teams move draft picks to the PS & lose them, & every year low round draft picks contribute to & help NFL teams win.

    Protecting a player like Hill,who has consistently failed to make a positive impact, is not capable of contributing on STs, has done NOTHING to shed the “track athlete playing football” label, & is NOT a good fit in the WCO (which requires precise route running, & prioritizes stretching the field horizontally over stretching it vertically), at the expense of a promising draft pick seems unwise to me especially when that team is “building through the draft.”

  • Jeremiah Johnson
  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Whatever..when I read the post, you made an intial statement, offered video evidence, and then followed it by saying his potential wasn’t worth risking a move to the PS. I don’t think it’s stretch that I thought you were basing his potential on what was in the video.

    As far as your second paragraph, you’re right there are guys signed away from PS every and there are guys drafted late who help. You know what, there are exponentially more guys NOT taken off of PS and exponentially more guys drafted late, who not only don’t help their team, they don’t make the team, or the PS. I’ll stand by the “ridiculous statement”.

    Yes, MM does run the WCO. However he isn’t a strict disciple {http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2013/01/the_marty_mornhinweg_system_ho.html}. He believes in stretching the field vertically. Not going vertical, with the way the rules are set up, is a mistake, IMO, because of how tightly the officials call the DPI penalty.

    Hill may never become anything, but it’s been pointed out how many very good NFL WR struggle their first 2 years, for various reasons. Again, the past 2 seasons, the NYJ have had 2 bottom five NFL QBs. Their best WR threat has been Jeremy Kerley (not a crticism of Kerley, but and indictment of the overall offensive talent). He also be unable to stay healthy. He has a lot riding on camp, no doubt. But, while people criticize Hill, and the NYJ, because of how Alshon Jeffrey blossomed this year, don’t we have to look at each player’s situation? Put AJ on the NYJ and tell me you believe he’d have had the same effect, and development, this season.

    Finally, calling Enuwa a ‘promising draft pick’ is a bit aggressive. He’s a nice athtlete and good team guy who the team hopes to develop. That is more of a project, than it is a ‘promising draft pick’. If he were that ‘promising’ there wouldn’t have been 26 other WR taken before him. In retrospect, Hill shouldn’t have been a 2nd round pick, but that’s not his fault-go look up his scouting reports and you’ll see he had many fans. By the same token, suggesting Enuwa is more than he is, a 6th round project, is expecting too much, IMO.

    Time will tell….

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Lidman, I’d love for you to quote where that nj.com article state’s MM prioritizes stretching the field vertically over stretching it horizontally. Perhaps, reading the TOJ summary of MM’s offense will clear up your confusion on this issue: http://turnonthejets.com/2013/01/new-york-jets-marty-mornhinwegs-offense-101-an-in-depth-look/

    So Hill is worth keeping because “it’s been pointed out how many very good NFL WR struggle their first 2 years” but Enunwa isn’t worth keeping because he was a 6th round pick? I sure hope you are trolling because that is nonsensical.

  • KAsh

    David Nelson: on the roster. For training camp, absolutely. For week one, I hope not.

    When you break down the Jets roster, Nelson falls into a grim group of players whose presence on the roster is a sign of failure to address their position. None of the players in this group are hated; they are just sturdy guys who are no good at their position. Pace, Landry, Patterson, and Nelson are all barometer players – the lower their role, the higher the hopes for the position. No one is bothering to follow Pace’s performance; we only look for whether IK/Reilly/Cunningham/anybody can replace him sooner or later. No one cares about Landry; we only care about how well Allen and Pryor are holding up with the ones. No one is excited to see Patterson excel in drills; we only want to see someone challenge him for the starting spot. And in the same way, no one gets animated about Nelson; we only wish someone else steps up.

    The Jets added five wide receivers and are entering the third, “payoff” year with a developmental prospect, so you hope that they improved over a player they picked up midyear last year. If by week one, Nelson is not on the roster, the offseason has been a huge success at the wide receiver position, we have a good, dynamic group of starting receivers, with lots of depth, and all players contributing and having their own niche in the offense or special teams. If week one rolls around and Nelson is a depth player, then you found someone to step up to make a versatile and talented group of starters, but your depth players offer little amusement. If on week one Nelson is still starting, then there was a collosal failure to address a major weakness, no one stepped up, Ford fell through, Hill was a bust, and all three draft picks are role players at best; there is very little hope for the position this year, the fans will be happy only when we run the ball, and you will have to spend a high draft pick on a receiver in next year’s draft. All the scenarios where Nelson is still on the roster require the Jets to draft more players at the position in the near future.

    By all accounts, Nelson is a good teammate and a good human being, and I do not hate him, but the Jets’s future prospects are lower with him on the roster than if he gets pushed off.

    @JJ

    Prospects get “stolen” off the practice squad by the results/potential they have shown in training camp. No one is taking Enunwa off of some athletic tests in March in a T-shirt or anything other than showing some ability in training camp and preseason games. But the argument about him has been ridiculous from the beginning: everyone takes it for a given that Enunwa cannot make a team with a wide receiver corps as weak as the Jets, but then he is supposed to be someone every other team wants to steal. If Enunwa was any good, he would make this roster, and if he is not good enough, what makes you think he would be good enough to make an impact on any other roster?

    As for box jumps, it only looks hard. To get to five feet, you need some training, but I cleared four feet at 240 lbs. after a few practice jumps and I have seen eight-year-olds clear three feet without trying. Once you realize that bringing your knees up into your chest clears about three feet of space for a grown man, then you only need to jump 24 inches to jump up five feet. If anything, Enunwa in the video falls off the box; he could not even cleanly jump 22 inches.

  • Joe Caporoso

    You are thinking too much when it comes to Nelson, he will be on the roster because he is a good 27 year old player at a position with many question marks for the Jets, the team signed him to a 2 year contract last season for a reason. Ford is a veteran minimum player, who is likely to be cut and who is nowhere near the NFL WR that Nelson is. There is also nothing wrong with rookie 4th or 6th round picks being role players in their first year. Again, either Evans or Enunwa is likely to be put on IR to avoid being taken off the practice squad, if they can’t make the final 53. Saunders is going to be make the team, barring injury.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    KAsh, I don’t care to get too much into the box jump issue, but I thought it was interesting since Enunwa’s combine was cut short by a hamstring issue so we don’t have a complete listing of his measurables, & that 58.27″ was a world record in 2011, according to Guiness World Records.

    For the record, IMO, evaluating a prospect off measurables primarily is a subpar method of evaluation (even for armchair GMs like us). However, comparing measurables against a player’s film is very useful especially with the level of competition varying so much in college football. For example, if a lineman that consistently rag dolls D2 defenders performs poorly on strength tests it should raise a red flag. If a WR plays with power on film & then displays 19 bench press reps at the combine & a 58″ box jump, it confirms what film shows.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    JJ..at the risk of being insulting, I have to wonder if you understand the basic premise of making a statement, and then going about proving that statement. You’ve criticized me for giving long answers. However, maybe you should be a tad more thorough when you make points. I can again go back to the first post you made: you made a statement, provided video evidence for that statement and then concluded putting Enuwa on the PS was a risk. Then, when I contradict your argument you tell me your conclusion wasn’t based on the video you put after the initial statement. So, the reader has to assume what you’re talking about? You’d fail English 101 on this.

    Next you wrote this:

    “Protecting a player like Hill,who has consistently failed to make a positive impact, is not capable of contributing on STs, has done NOTHING to shed the “track athlete playing football” label, & is NOT a good fit in the WCO (which requires precise route running, & prioritizes stretching the field horizontally over stretching it vertically)….”

    All I suggested was that MM’s version of WCO has wrinkles that make going vertical more important. I didn’t say anything about vertical vs horizontal-you did. The article I refer to isn’t an opinion piece either. It’s based on the author’s interview/feedback from Kevin Higgins. In the article, they tell you who Higgins is:

    “Higgins, the current head coach at The Citadel who worked under Mornhinweg during his two years as a head coach for the Detroit Lions, has as good an understanding of Mornhinweg’s offense as anyone. ” I’d say he’s a pretty decent source, even better than the great staff here, that analyze a lot of tape.

    Now I didn’t read the TOJ piece you’re citing, and I’m sure they have some valid points. However, my original statement had to do with MM’s, emphasis on threatening the field VERTICALLY. So, in case you didn’t read the article, here is the passage (that again, tells us how MM’s WCO is DIFFERENT):

    GOING DEEP

    “What made Marty DIFFERENT from all the other West Coast guys was he took a lot of shots downfield.”

    Between 2010 and 2011, Mornhinweg’s Eagles were in the top 10 in passing plays of 20 yards or more. On passing plays of 40 yards or more they were No. 1 in 2010 and No. 12 in 2011.

    Higgins remembers this philosophy going back to offensive meetings where Mornhinweg would look at the game plan and jokingly scold his coaches in Detroit for being too reliant on the safe dinks and dunks that define his system.

    “We’ve only got three or four shots downfield,” Higgins remembered Mornhinweg saying. “I want to see six or seven that can give us an honest chance at a home run that are realistic plays, like deep crossing routes with seven or eight man protection.”

    I’m not confused about anything. I think MM wants to take shots downfield. This isn’t my opinion; there is evidence of that from a statistical standpoint and from a coach who worked for the guy. I don’t see how you argue the point, other than you just failed to read the article or (to quote you) are simply ‘trolling’ because what ‘you are saying is nonsensical’. I can’t lay this out any more clearly. I’m done with this argument. If you can’t simply accept that the evidence supports me, I can only conclude that you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Lidman, perhaps the formatting confused you, but my 1st post contained 2 paragraphs. At the risk of insulting you, a paragraph is a collection of related sentences dealing with a single topic. Was the video of Enunwa’s box jump proof of why Evans should make the team too???

    As far as the MM’s WCO, Mike Nolan describes the passing game in MUCH greater detail than that nj.com article. He states:

    Before the Air Coryell and WCO offenses hit the NFL, teams would often times pass out of necessity as opposed to strategy. Teams who started running the WCO could substitute short pass plays for running plays on first down, thus creating a more unpredictable offense. Defenses could no longer stack the box on first down and offenses were able to find more creative ways to stay on schedule. While his offense has shown more of a running tendency than most WCOs, at the base of Mornhinweg’s offense is the quick timing short routes that can open up the entire playbook.

    The Mornhinweg offense relies on high percentage throws and timing. His favorite types of pass plays can be put into two groups. The first is horizontal routes run by athletic receivers who can make a play after catching the ball in space. These routes are often open because of route combinations whether it is with high-low concepts that put linebackers in a bind in zone coverage or through clearing routes that can take a safety out of the equation. These are the type of routes receivers like Terrell Owens and DeSean Jackson made a living on in Mornhinweg’s offense. The second is pure timing routes that excel against man to man. Receivers are required to run perfectly timed slants, outs, and hitches. These are the routes that receivers like Jeremy Maclin and Jason Avant have thrived at.

    Once both of these types of routes have proven successful, it is time to take some shots. This is something Mornhinweg has proven to be very adept at in his Eagles tenure as he will usually take about 4 or 5 deep shots a game. Most times he sets up his deep shots. When both the horizontal routes and the timing routes start hitting, safeties start jumping underneath routes and corners start playing tighter on the outside. This is when Mornhinweg takes some chances. Other times, he just does it with no set up at all. Remember the first play on Monday Night Football where Vick hit DeSean Jackson on a deep post for 88 yards against current Jet LaRon Landry after Landry said he was going to put Jackson to sleep: One of the best “FU moments” in recent memory. An offensive coordinator who is willing to change up the game plan right before taking the field to go after a player who won’t stop chirping is right up Rex Ryan’s alley.”

    It clearly indicates that stretching the field horizontally is the basis of the offense.

  • LeeBur

    JJ- Dont think Lidman was saying the WCO is not horizontal. I think he was just saying MM takes more vertical shots then the typical WCO coach.

    Or maybe these posts are very long and im too tired to follow them. Which might be the case.

  • Mark

    Forgive me for being pedestrian….but my ‘Training Camp Expectation’ is that the Jets will vastly improve their OL. The ‘standards’ are diminishing; Winters is no world beater; and count me in as a worry wart about the new RT. I’d love to see Idzik spend some $’s on the OL so that Geno has a chance to get the ball to WHOEVER is the WR.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Lee, i think the horizontal/vertical discussion grew out of my assertion that Hill is not a good fit in the WCO. My understanding is that executing the timing routes with the necessary precision consistently is what opens up the field for the deep passing game & the run game, & that WRs who are not able to execute those routes properly have limited value, even if they are 6’4″ & run a 4.35 40 yd dash.

  • KAsh

    @JJ

    Except Mornhinweg’s offense differs from a WCO in important areas. He incorporates a lot more runs into the offense. He ran about 40% of the time with the Eagles and with the Jets he ran more than he passed (493 rushing plays vs. 480 passing attempts). Once you do that, you cannot center the rest of your pass plays around short routes or defenses will crowd your LoS, which explains why Geno led the league in downfield plays in September until his interceptions started to take the team out of matches. Mornhinweg threw deep plays until he lost all his deep threats and the majority of the plays he still called were designed to go ten-fifteen yards past the LoS. Mornhinweg’s offense is based around WCO concepts, but the quirks he throws into how he runs the offense force him to change the pass distribution. He needs a consistent deep threat to clear out defenses crowding the LoS or his offense is much less versatile. As the Eagles receiver corps demonstrate, he prefers talented receivers rather than just a certain type

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Can someone help me please? JJ is trying to explain paragraphs to me:

    “Lidman, perhaps the formatting confused you, but my 1st post contained 2 paragraphs. At the risk of insulting you, a paragraph is a collection of related sentences dealing with a single topic. Was the video of Enunwa’s box jump proof of why Evans should make the team too???”

    What am I missing below? Is it me, or are there only 2 total sentences? How can he have 2 paragraphs here, if each paragraph needs to have related sentences, but there are only 2 total sentences?

    “Since the Quincy Enunwa analysis fell off page 1 & he is mentioned here, I’m going to re-post this:

    http://youtu.be/OG58FA_zbsQ

    Enunwa & Evans have way too much potential, imo, to risk trying to sneak them onto the PS in order to give Hill another chance.”

    Oh, I didn’t discuss Evans because the video is of Enunwa. On top of that Evans is a 4th round pick who just based on draft position, would be considered, by the team, a much better candidate to make the team (otherwise they would have drafted Quincy where they drafted Shaq).

    Love this argument…

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    KAsh, no doubt MM throws deep more than the prototypical WCO teams (I think Shanahan/Kubiak in Denver ran more than MM does though), but I have to assume he’s going to prefer players who can execute the timing routes & get deep more than players who can only get deep. Decker, Saunders, & Evans should be able to perform as the team’s deep threats. Saunders & Evans were both successful as deep threats in college, even if they are unable to execute the timing routes immediately, they look A LOT more polished than Hill does to me.

    Your statement that MM “needs a consistent deep threat to clear out defenses crowding the LoS or his offense is much less versatile,” seems to contradict Mike Nolan’s article where he stated: “While his offense has shown more of a running tendency than most WCOs, at the base of Mornhinweg’s offense is the quick timing short routes that can open up the entire playbook.” I’m not familiar enough with the Eagles under MM to offer an opinion on the subject, but would be interested in who you think MM has previously utilized that is similar to Hill (unrefined deep threat/decoy).

    http://turnonthejets.com/2013/01/new-york-jets-marty-mornhinwegs-offense-101-an-in-depth-look/

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Lidman, I posted a link with a play that shows the potential I see in Enunwa, yet you completely refuse to address it & continue this game of “gotcha” over the box jump video. How is this not trolling?

    I hate to insult your intelligence over paragraphs, but from Merriam-Webster: Full Definition of PARAGRAPH

    1
    a : a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line
    b : a short composition or note that is complete in one paragraph
    2
    : a character (as ¶) used to indicate the beginning of a paragraph and as a reference mark

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/paragraph

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    JJ..appreciate you clarifying that for me. Further proof that you speak before you think, or do any research. If you go back and look at the first time you tried to explain what a paragraph was, you stated a paragraph ‘is an collection of related sentences dealing with a single topic’. Now, you are the English teacher here, so I’ll ask: isn’t ‘sentences’ plural?

    I don’t care about the Enunwa video that shows ’1 play’. I mean look at how you’re defending your position??? First you show us a box jump and then you show me 1 play? We are talking about a guy drafted 209, and you’re worried about losing him? Just say that out loud a few times. I fully appreciate your loyalty to the NYJ. It’s awesome. But, take off the green shades dude. I mean what’s next, Tajh Boyd is the next Tom Brady, IK the next James Harrison and Trevor Reilly the next Urlacher? At this point, are you worried how we are going to be able to hide William Campbell, so other teams don’t grab him? Yes, I’m being sarcastic, but get a grip here lad.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Lidman,
    Please feel free to check the comment section of the QE analysis, if you want to see more of my thoughts on the player. You also could’ve asked my opinion, but were clearly more interested in playing “gotcha.”

    Other than saying “We are talking about a guy drafted 209, and you’re worried about losing him?” (Derp), you have provided NO commentary on the player, so I find your criticism of my interest in the player to be without merit.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    There isn’t any specific criticism of the player. The exchange began when I challenged your notion that cutting Hill at ‘the risk’ of losing Enunwa, from the Practice Squad, was ‘a reach to me’. That is how this started. The only way he has any chance of being ‘poached’ from the NYJ PS (if he makes it that far) is if he has a stand out camp. Now, if he has a stand out camp, it is likely he’d make the team, when you consider the state of the NYJ WR corp. I don’t need to provide any commentary on the player other than he was the 209th pick of the draft, and the 27th player at his position taken. Pro scouting departments, 32 of them, watched more film on this guy than you have, and they passed on him…208 times!!!! Do they miss guys? Sure. But, those are the exceptions and not the rule.

    The other stuff was non-sensical, adolescent BS. I just liked poking holes in your arguments because of how you present them. If that makes me a bad guy, I can live with that.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Its nice to see you admit you are a troll.

  • KAsh

    @JJ

    I think you are cherry picking your own evidence. I had read the Boiler Room article before, and it talks at length about how Enunwa needs years of work as a receiver. Waldman starts off his analysis by mentioning that in the scouting profile that he makes money off, as opposed to the sneak peeks he posts online to wet his readers’ appetites for the profiles that he sells, he did not grade Enunwa highly based on all the apparent flaws and the rest of his article ignores them to highlight some playmaking skills against college secondaries. The fact that does not need to be stated is that players with those flaws either correct them or never make an impact in the pros because NFL corners do not even have to bother prepping for them. In the breakdown on this site, Connor Rogers ran through a gamut of problems – his hands, his feet, his route-running, his concentration, his inability at times to track the ball in the air, his inconsistency at the catch point – but he gave all of these issues the same amount of attention as he gave Enunwa’s pros – his blocking, his strength, his leadership, and how he seems to step up his game in the red zone. Note that only one of those positives has a lot of effect on being able to play his position, and there is no explanation for it. Enunwa was the 28th out of 33 wide receivers drafted this year; there are twenty-seven rookie wide receivers that teams thought had more value than Enunwa, and some of them may not make rosters either. Even if Enunwa is still on the roster late into August, there is a huge possibility that the Jets cut him to take in another team’s roster cut.

    I also at first thought you were pulling some other TOJ review of Mornhinweg’s offense, but it was the one I remembered as contradicting your view. Taken as a whole, Mike Nolan writes in that article that Mornhinweg runs a WCO that violates some of the central concepts of the system. The one sentence you quote is a poor transition sentence to the next paragraph (and a whole new section, in fact) that I think you used to distort what Nolan actually wrote. For example, the two sentences prior to the one you quoted – “Teams who started running the WCO could substitute short pass plays for running plays on first down, thus creating a more unpredictable offense. Defenses could no longer stack the box on first down and offenses were able to find more creative ways to stay on schedule.” – contradicts your insistence that Mornhinweg’s base system somehow diminishes the role of the deep ball. The base WCO Mornhinweg uses was created to substitute run plays with short passes, so if he adds more run plays back in, then what he takes out are not the long pass plays meant to gain chunk yards, but some of the short pass plays meant to gain consistent yardage and cause third-and-short situations. As has already been pointed out, Mornhinweg’s offenses have been consistently among the best in the league in big plays for chunk yardage. Out of 480 passing attempts last year, 165 were over ten yards past the LoS and 63 were over twenty yards past the LoS, and that does not take into account all the checkdowns Geno threw when the play was designed for a downfield receiver. You can expect 15-20% of the entire offense every year to be allocated to deep plays. Players that were primarily responsible for the deep routes – players like Holmes, Hill, Nelson, and Gates – were targeted a total of 202 times. Decker, Evans, and Saunders can contribute in this area, but Decker will receive a lot of attention and will be a do-it-all Swiss Army knife at receiver, so he cannot specialize in this, Evans may have the ability to catch a ball on the sideline, but does not have the speed to get open downfield in seconds, which is what people mean when they say “go deep,” and Saunders at 165 lbs. may get too battered just doing punt returns to survive getting laid out by safeties for catching a deep pass. A player with the speed to go and get deep balls will seem to command a third of the passing game. A player like Terrell Owens, who was Stephen Hill-like at 6′ 3″, 224 lbs., with a 4.4s forty-yard dash, who the Eagles signed the year Mornhinweg became the Assistant Head Coach, who Waldman in his article thought Quincy Enunwa resembled prior to all the flaws he showed in his tape.

    Which is a good way to wrap up this discussion: if your argument is that Hill does not fit Mornhinweg’s system (and I think the way you imagine Mornhinweg’s system is wrong) then Enunwa does not fit it either. If Enunwa does fit, then Hill is clearly superior to him, whether you compare him as an athlete or receiver, with or without future potential. Even with the most lopsided evaluation, Hill and Enunwa have the same flaws, but Hill has better weapons to develop.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    You are comparing Terrell Owens to Stephen Hill? That’s absolutely ludicrous. Hill has shown ZERO ability to create YAC unless he catches the ball without breaking stride.

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