No Huddle – New York Jets Draft Review Edition

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TJ Rosenthal kicks off another week of New York Jets coverage at Turn On The Jets with his weekly No Huddle - Make sure to give TJ a follow on Twitter on Turn On The Jets a follow on Facebook.

In honor of the twelve selections the New York Jets had in this year’s NFL draft, this week’s No Huddle presents to you the diehard, twelve questions regarding last weeks Radio City extravaganza.

1 – Did Idzik want to use every pick?

I thought for certain that heading into Thursday night, Lord John Idzik would package a few of the mid to later round picks in order to move up and grab a top flight wide receiver in round one. So much for that. The Jets took three receivers on Friday and Saturday instead. I wonder if this was Idzik’s original intent. Keep every one of the twelve no matter what.

2 – How many of the Dirty Dozen Will Stick?

If Idzik could have packaged some picks for a top flight first or second round receiver and chose not to, then certainly the reasoning behind keeping and using all twelve slots was that these most of these kids will make the final roster and practice squad right? I’m guessing that nine will stick in some shape or form.

3 – A Safety??!!

At first when I heard Calvin Pryor’s name called I said to myself “damn, no receiver?” Then after a few more beers uptown at the Turn On The Jets Draft Party I became more at peace with the idea of once again going defense on day one. After all, the last hard hitting safety the Jets had for more than a rental season and Laron Landry was who, Victor Green?

What a great way to cover up young cornerbacks. Throw a heat seeking missile behind them. Still, many of you were just like me when you heard “and the NY Jets select, SAFETY…” Admit it.

4 – “Johnny, Johnny, Johnny”

While I have the lie detector machine still plugged in, allow me to ask this: After the Cowboys passed on Johnny Football, whether you liked the idea of drafting another QB or not, did you at least entertain the idea of Johnny Football scrambling around in Green and White? I did.

Football wise, it was probably a sound move to pass on Manziel, avoiding yet another circus. Especially with all of the holes that need filling on this team. Besides, Manziel’s style won’t transfer to the pros anyway. He’s more of a fame whore, less of a gym rat too. A real prima donna as well. That said, now watch as he lights it up in Cleveland. Call it the curse of Dan Marino.

Since he was drafted AFTER the Jets passed on him, we all get to waterboard ourselves in our own bathroom toilets too if he leads the lowly Browns to the promised land before any Jet QB does. Gulp.

5 – Would You Have Dealt The Necessary Picks To Trade Back Into The First Round?

The Jets had the ammo to trade back into the first round after selecting Pryor. I know they apparently tried to move up in round two to grab USC WR Marqise Lee, but maybe the offer by Idzik wasn’t enough.

What if Idzik gave up more to move back into the first round or early second for one of the top wideouts taken? Would that have been too much for you?

Come to think of it, bona fide number ones like Megatron and Dez Bryant have not exactly paved the way for their teams to play a ton of postseason games in January. I guess I just thought Idzik was going to succeed in going super aggressive at that point for a projected stud, but was wrong.

6 – Can You Sleep At Night Now?

CB Dexter McDougle was taken in the 3rd round. Brandon Dixon in the 6th round. Knowing that the Jets passed on Darrelle Revis, Antonio Cromartie, the other Cromartie (Dominique Rogers-Cromartie of the Giants) and more, will you now sleep better at night nonetheless, by imagining Dee Milliner, vets such as Kyle Wilson and some new rookies patrolling the outer islands and inner slots? Factoring Pryor into the equation too of course

Not me. Not just yet. No way. This unit has project written all over it. The consistent pass rush the Jets defensive line should provide up front to help cover up the inexperience in the back is assuring at least.

7 – Gronk and Hernando? Hey, A Cheap Knockoff Would Suffice.

Second round pick Jace Amaro will provide the Jets with a tight end who can stretch the seam. His arrival instantly excited many fans who had done some of their own pre draft homework on the guy. Pairing him with Jeff Cumberland now gives the Jets a shot at their own version of the two tight end feature made famous by the Pats one time duo of Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. Who before Gronkowski’s injuries and Hernandez’s murder charges, were really a pair of fast, big play, sure handed wide receivers and red zone threats.

How potent can Amaro and the jumbo sized Cumberland actually be as a tandem themselves? A cheap knockoff version of the former New England tag team would be fine with me. I wonder if any of you diehards believes that pairing Amaro with Cumberland can be more than just some mismatch to exploit every so often.

8 – Draft A QB Every Year Until You Find A Franchise Guy, Right?

Former Clemson QB Tajh Boyd will be the latest Jet quarterback project this summer. He’s very athletic and has leadership qualities but lacks consistent accuracy. Fine. Mr. David Lee (Jets QB coach), please clean him up and let’s see what happens.

No offense to current QB3 Matt Simms, I’m all for drafting a project QB every year when there is no clear cut franchise guy behind center. It’s the position that if a decade long answer is found, changes the stability of an entire franchise. Don’t stop until one is found.

9 – Did Drafting Pryor First Show That Rex Still Has Power?

Some analysts said after Calvin Pryor became a Jet, that drafting a safety in round one exemplified that like his Mike Tannenbaum days, Rex Ryan still has personnel influence within the organization. There may be some merit to that notion but to me, choosing Pryor was more of John Idzik displaying how impressed he was with the effect of Seattle safety Earl Thomas and the Hawks efficient yet All Pro-less WR corps than any name Ryan had on his wish list.

10 – Is This An Open Competition Or Not?

Now that the draft is over, I’d like to see the Jets tell us with a straight face that if Michael Vick whips this new receiving and tight end crew into shape faster than Geno Smith does, he is the backup and mentor to Smith in 2014. As Vick so politely stated last week.

Soon it will be time for Ryan to frame this situation. I can’t wait to hear Sexy Rexy try to dance around the topic. No matter what the HC initially tells the press, the best man will win the starting job. I guarantee it like Joe Namath.

11 – Which of the receivers drafted has the best chance of making an immediate impact?

After seeing highlight clips and reading 2014 pre draft reports of all three all over again, it’s Shaq Evans for me. He looks tough on tape like Laverneus Coles. I love that scouts say he can make a living moving the chains inside and has a great work ethic too.

12 – Now, after the free agency and draft dust has cleared, how do you rate Idzik?

Me, I still need to see the new players perform in order to assess the GM’s talent evaluating skills, but I respect his refusal to pin the entire future on just a few a few free agent stars and day one blue chip prospects.

John Idzik’s approach is clearly a long term one. Mistakes will be made by him along the way, but having patience and growing a roster based on a player’s mental and physical attributes and character as a person is a solid way to build.

  • Mike Z

    I agree with much of your post. We cannot grade a draft the day after. Remember how angry Jets fans were that we took Richardson #12 last year. Without having the information that the scouts it is very toug. I hope we are all happily surprised about our 3rd round pick CB pick but he looks like a real reach in a round when there were still some legitimate playmakers left on the board. Also, I am hoping that Idzik’s inability to trade up to get Lee after reports said that the Jets were “furiously” trying to is not an indication that he is an inflexible trading partner. I do see some Parcells in Idzik. He seems to be trying to build a complete team which means Special Teams too. I think some of thsese picks had ST in mind.

  • joeydefiant

    Everyone keeps saying the Jets should have traded late round picks to move up but no one wanted to trade an early pick for late round picks. They would have to let themselves get ripped off.

  • Joe Caporoso

    Agree on the ST thoughts Mike. Think McDougle, Dixon, George and Saunders have the chance to be immediate contributors there.

  • Joe Caporoso

    Will get to this in an article JoeyDefiant, but it seems most people are made the team didn’t execute the trade up for Lee. Personally, I am happier with them staying put and landing Amaro. As I liked Amaro as a prospect better than Lee, particularly for this Jets offense. Outside of that, everybody seemed to love mid-round guys like Bryant or Moncrief but think those two were similar level prospects to Saunders/Evans, just didn’t have the same amount of pre-draft hype. That is just my opinion and fair to say Bryant has a higher upside than Saunders/Evans but also a bigger chance of busting.

    Generally, I think the Jets are much more content with their group of WRs than many fans are, for reasons I’ll write about this week.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Joey..there were trades there

    The Dolphins acquired a third-round pick (No. 67) from the Raiders for third- and fourth-round picks (Nos. 81 and 116). With the 67th pick, the Dolphins took North Dakota State offensive lineman Billy Turner. At No. 81, the Raiders took Mississippi State offensive guard Gabe Jackson.

    The Texans acquired a third-round pick (No. 83) from the Eagles for fourth- and fifth-round picks (Nos. 101 and 141). At No. 83, the Texans took Notre Dame defensive tackle Louis Nix.

    The Jaguars acquired a third-round pick (No. 93) from the Patriots for fourth- and sixth-round selections (Nos. 105, 179). At No. 93, the Jaguars took Miami (Fla.) offensive guard Brandon Linder.

    The Browns acquired a third-round pick (No. 94) from the 49ers for fourth- and sixth-round selections (Nos. 106, 180). At No. 94, the Browns selected Towson running back Terrance West.

    I 3 of these scenarios, these teams move into the 3rd round, and used higher round picks to do it.

    I’d be interested to know if anyone was interested in moving up to the NYJ spot. Cleveland and Minny both moved up to get QBs, and evidently Cleveland moved into Philly’s spot, 22, when Philly told them they were going to deal with Minny. The NYJ took the clock to under a minute when they were up. Who’s to say whether or not Cleveland or Minny would have moved up to 18, or whether NO, who moved up to 20-to get Cooks, would have dealt anything to the NYJ, but there were opportunities taken to move higher.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Joe, I’m a Moncrief fan..when you look at his overall college production, in that conference, with that QB, and then you look at his ‘measurables’, I think the risk of taking him at 86, and hoping Dex is there where they picked Saunders or Shaq, was a likely one. It’s all opinion at this point, but nobody suggests Saunders or Evans is more than a 3rd WR, where Moncrief has all the upside to be a top target. But, that’s the fun of the draft…we’ll see.

  • Freddie Mac

    I can’t say I’m surprised Idzik wasn’t able to pull off a trade. He seems intent on getting maximum value while everyone scoffs at him. He likely low-balled teams in the draft.
    Free agency showed us who he is. He’s not to be confused with Tanny.
    We’ll see how long term he will be. If the team (who faces 5 of the top 6 passing offenses) struggles next season with the secondary getting torched, he’s going to be under the gun for being unable to sign a CB from the deepest FA class ever and failing to get more than a slot CB in the 3rd round coming off injury. You can spin that pick in a more favorable light but trust me, the media will portray it just as I did and it wouldn’t be unfair.
    His days of waiting for the perfect situation (that never arrives) will then minimize greatly.

    Personally, I don’t think anyone here is being fair outside of a guy named Lidman. I recall reading this site and many others and everyone called for a combo of WR/CB in the first 2 rounds. Why is no one here making a case for what they’d been asking for? It seemed the majority wanted Cooks (I was a Beckham guy) or Dennard at CB. Both were there. I guess mindlessly accepting what you’re given is the approach for most. I’m at least being honest saying I didn’t like most of the picks. And I buy Jets merchandise and game passes. I’m talking to you, Johnny. The rest of you can continue wearing happy faces no matter what happens. It’s a choice.

    As for the Pryor pick, my only problem with it is that he’s a headhunter in a new era of strict NFL rules that greatly punish such play. Teams are better off attaining strong coverage safeties today. Are the Jets the last to realize this? Hopefully I’m wrong and Pryor can flash coverage as well and stay out of trouble. He’s a great talent for a woefully thin safety group. And if any position should’ve been doubled up it was at safety IMO.

  • KAsh

    I find that a few more beers make me at peace about a lot of things. Just like in that Bud Light Super Bowl commercial: “He’s got an axe!” “But he has a pack of Bud Light.”

    Idzik already said that he tried to package picks to move both up and down, but wound up not exercising any of those options.

    The question about who sticks fascinates me much more. You have to think McDougle, Amaro, and Pryor are too high picks to not be on the roster. Saunders, Evans, and George probably stay because of the lack of depth at those positions. George is almost a sure lock because we have just one other backup on the current roster. Saunders was highly coveted in the fourth round and only Salas offers the same set of skills out of all the receivers on the roster. Evans and Enunwa have an uphill battle because they have similar measurables to Decker, Hill, Nelson, and Gates. But Evans and Enunwa have an advantage in that they can be stashed on the practice squad and Idzik gave all ties and close calls last year to the less experienced player. Dozier takes Ducasse’s place, but it is a fair question if the Jets keep the same number of o-linemen on the 53-man roster as last year. You have to figure that someone gets beat out for the backup job and the other person gets stashed on the practice squad. I think the plan for 2015 is to have Winters and either Dozier or Campbell starting, with the other being a swing backup. Reilly and IK will compete with each other and with McIntyre for the backup spots. Barnes is a pass-rush specialist, so is not a true backup. I think the loser should at least make the PS, unless that loser is McIntyre. Dixon will have the hardest time out of anyone. He has to beat out a lot of good, talented backups and special team stars to have a hope of making the roster. If Simms cannot beat out a passer with as many problems as Boyd, he deserves to get his walking papers.

    Ultimately, I think Idzik keeps around all of his picks. He stashes IK, Dixon, Enunwa, Boyd and Campbell on the PS, while Pryor, Amaro, McDougle, and Saunders play big roles, and Evans, Dozier, George, and Reilly are backups. With that, Idzik continues his streak of not jettisoning a single pick he drafted that same year.

  • Freddie Mac

    Lidman, I’m with you all the way on that McDougle pick as it was likely a calculated risk worth taking in order to seal Moncrief. Just how impactful will McDougle wind up being that couldn’t be replaced by another prospect in that draft in the top of the 4th? He’s under 5’10.
    But I do recall there being some interest in Dexter in his pro day. Still, I would’ve waited on him until the 4th. And you’re right, Moncrief’s ceiling is far higher than Shaq’s.
    Idzik seems unable to make such a move. He won’t take chances. Ever. Even Belichick has been known to take chances here and there. No guts, no glory.

    Overall, I can’t shake the disappointment due to having higher expectations from last year’s strong finish, retaining Rex and riding that wave of optimism following dumping old, bloated contracts in Sanchez, Cro, Holmes and others. We had a ton of money and extra picks to address the large number of holes on this team to compete for the playoffs.
    IMO, Idzik took the wind out of the sails of this ship that was gaining speed. He accomplished this by waiting for the perfect deal when he had tons of cash at his disposal. He waited while top prospects were gobbled up by our competitors while many fans covered for him claiming he had some great plan. Where’s the plan? Who’s going to cover WR’s on the top passing teams? Who’s going to catch the football at WO? Getting Decker was great but why stop there only to address in the 4th round of one of the best WR draft classes in memory?

    I’m sorry but I just can’t defend Idzik. Of course I will pull for Shaq and Saunders to rise to a level higher than we expect but I’m tempering my enthusiasm which for the most part has been lost due to his offseason moves.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    I think the last paragraph in this article is accurate & well said. Its a lot easier to appreciate Idzik’s moves by viewing them through the lens of “how does this help the team over the next 3-5 years?” instead of “how does this help the team this year?”.

    I’m looking forward to reading Joe’s assessment of the Jets WR situation later this week. In the meantime, Jalen Saunder’s college highlights indicate he brings some speed & big play capability that the Jets have been sorely lacking for too long.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Freddie Mac,

    I am cautiously optimistic. If this all works out, Idzik will be lauded for his patience and measured way of team building. Heck, we may wind up reading articles about the ‘NYJ method’. However, I worry he was simply too passive/indecisive. The team has over $23mm in available cap space. He’s unlikely to extend Mo until something happens with JJ Watt, plus next year, they have over $12mm is dead money coming back, and David Harris’ deal comign off the the books, so he’ll again have a lot of cash, and 1 less year until he ‘must’ spend it. I love Kash’s optimism, but if 12 draft picks make this team, and practice squad, it will likely come at the expense of guys like Campbell and Aboushi-guys he kept around on the 53 man all year. Barnes, Nelson, Landry and Simms-guys he brought in here last year, or Hill/Wilson (couldn’t see it, but you never know)-guys he didn’t draft. I just don’t see any way, 9 guys drafted from round 4 on, stick with this team. Again, I think he wasted an opportunity to be aggressive, and get the team more higher rated players, from their own board.

    I like Moncrief..I’m a Wil Sutton fan…I’m amazed a guy like Jackson Jeffcoat goes undrafted..however, I’m a bond trader, not an NFL personnell guy, so I can live with their view that McDougle is a good player. I just think I would have more confidence in 3rd round and under picks, than I do in all these 4th-7th round guys. Go look at a list of All-Pro teams and go look at the Hall Of Fame…your chances of getting one of those guys is MUCH higher in the earlier rounds. He chose to look for diamonds in the rough and special teamers. As a fan, I hope Geno’s progression and their running game open up the field for their young pass catchers. On defense, I think their DLine must become dominant. That’s where they spent their highest draft currency. That’s where they need All-Pro level performance. They need to force more TOs and limit team’s from getting in the end zone, otherwise they are putting a young, inexperienced offense, with lower round picks, in the position to have to win games…I’m cautiously optimistic.

    Jets Jets Jets

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    JJ…I think that view is unrealistic. It’s rare to get 3-5 years to build.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Surely some of the worst teams, like the Raiders, have shown a lack of foresight in their moves.

    However, teams that rely on the draft, like Pittsburgh or Baltimore, are most certainly making choices that they believe will yield the best results over a longer period of time. Since, I think, NFL teams control the rights to rookies for 5 years, allowing a free agent to walk & collecting a supplemental draft pick would logically indicate that that move is made in order to produce better results in the future (over the course of at least 5 years) as low round draft picks are very unlikely to be impact players as rookies & very few will match the production of a veteran in their prime.

  • Stevesc

    Everyone knows Idzik is all about competition. Stephen Hill has the size and speed as a wr, but as we all know has trouble catching the ball and getting open. Even Jerry Rice couldn’t catch a cold when he first came up. Maybe the wr’s that were drafted will push Hill to up his game, and who knows maybe he can become a solid receiver for the Jets. I wouldn’t give up on him yet, at least see what he does during training camp and pre season. I know it’s a stretch, but you never know what can happen. IMHO.

  • Vince

    Offense is still developing but the Defense will be fine. In ’09 when the D was #1, Rex had Lito Sheppard playing opposite Revis in his 2nd and breakout season. This is Milliner’s 2nd yr. Let’s see if he makes the jump. Got McDougle to push Wilson. In ’09, we had Donald Strickland and Dwight Lowery as the 3rd and 4th corners. We draft Pryor who is way more physical and feared than Kerry Rhodes ever was in ’09. And we have a d-line thats 10 times better than the ’09 team. Rex can coach a defense with what the experts say are “lesser players.” If we don’t turn the ball over, we’ll be fine. After this season, the D will be top five for the next 5 yrs with young talent we have.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Giving out grades this year is an exercise in futility. I’m happy that we addressed areas of need, and I approve the philosophy of the front office. Draft high character, hard nosed players. Toughness on defense and speed on offense. I am sure we got stronger on offense, stronger on defense, and much stronger on special teams.

    I loved the fact that we took Pryor over Cooks at 18, Pryor is the more sure thing and has a better chance to be great right away and also happens to be the prototype at safety in a Rex defense. Cooks, who I love as a prospect, did have some red flags—not the least of which was how he played against Oregon against a top CB prospect in next year’s draft. There is no way that Cooks was BPA at that point. I’m a Cooks fan, but Pryor was the better pick. Pryor was regarded as the best safety by a lot of people. Cooks was no better than the third WR on any board. And we ended up taking 3 WR with 4.4- speed later on. Hopefully one of them pans out.

    The scouts have watched way more film on these guys than we ever will, so hopefully they are more right than wrong. With 12 players, I think we probably got 3 studs, and 2 more who will become very solid players, whether or not they ever make the pro bowl. Which of the players turn out to be studs, and which turn out to be solid, only time will tell.

    Disclaimer: I don’t love Idzik I love the way he handles his business. Whether he is successful or not who knows but he is taking the correct proven approach to building a winner.

    P.S. Even the idiot Cimini and the clown Manish wouldn’t be ignorant enough to state that ”But this is essentially the same team”! Even they know that adding Decker, Johnson, Vick and 12 draft picks in a loaded draft improved a team lacking playmakers and depth!

  • Mark

    SteveSC: I hope you are right about Hill…and I think you could be. After first year the rub on Hill was his drops. Last year he got clobbered over the middle, knocked out of the game, and still held the ball. Yes, he was no Jerry Rice at getting open. But, who else was there to distract the coverage? Let’s hope Hill surprises us all this year. I think he could.

  • KAsh

    @Lidman

    It is not optimism but insight into Idzik’s decision-making that guides my thought. But a bond broker? I should have guessed it. I was thinking stock broker – highly practical thinker that puts weight in numbers and reputation, but with a distaste for theoretics in contrast to established facts, and likes to debate; outward oriented and able to get by in social sitiations – but I put too much emphasis on your repeated mentions of a stressful work environment and not enough on your boredom. Bonds would explain why you do not seem like the type to do massive amounts of coke.

    Anyway, Idzik kept all his seven picks on the roster last season, so he is probably planning to do the same this year. Except this roster is definitely more talented than it was last year, so he will have to make harder choices this year. PS players need to clear waivers, so only young, developmental players will be sent there, and the ones that can contribute in some way will be kept. George, Enemkpali, and Reilly are late-round picks at a very thin, but vital position on the defense. Same holds true for Saunders, Evans, and Enunwa on offense. I doubt they let Boyd go and Dixon is one of the few corners that they can still stash onto the PS. Anyway, I wrote yesterday that I expect competition – Idzik’s motto – and competition means some lose out. McIntyre, Hill, Walls, and Nelson need to show why they should get the nod over rookies with more upside.

    @Freddie

    I never called for a corner or a wide receiver other than Marqise Lee in the first round. People who were doing so were being hysterical. Rex’s defense did not call for great cornerbacks; Rex had great cornerbacks and used them to their full abilities. (Such schemes “devalued” the safety position by Rex wanting workmen safeties that were willing to stop the run and blitz more often than they were used to.) When the corners became less talented, the options were to find another once-in-twenty-years talent at cornerback or just go and get a decent safety. Pryor makes the team’s safety play rise from below average to average with the potential for greatness. Jets fans who wanted a corner ignored all the warts on the top corners this year in their continuing mad dash to get their Revis fix. The secondary will be much better with good rookie safeties than with another rookie corner that we will strand on the sideline to be devoured by the Alshon Jefferies of the league. The latter just sounds like what keeps Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady awake at night.

    The same for wide receiver. Both positions are three-year projects. 64% of all first-round wide receivers never pan out. What a great position to reach for. You could have picked between a 5-9 receiver that cannot get open without being schemed open by his OC or a 6-4 project that might not have the motivation to master everything he needs to or the guy who’s knee injury scared away everyone in the first 38 picks. Those are some surefire selections right there. But we must have a #1 receiver! Even though our OC is a genius that was able to make a 5-9, 175 lbs. receiver that was the 49th pick in his draft one of the most dangerous receivers in the league. Even though our offensive scheme spreads the ball around and exploits mismatches rather than relying on receivers to beat coverage. Even though our head coach has running the ball in his soul and a new thousand-yard rusher to complement his sixth-best rushing offense in the league. But the fan base needs to get the receiver monkey off its back, so the GM must oblige.

    Never listen to the fans. That should be the first commandment for every GM. As Lidman pointed out, “fan” comes from “fanatic” and the best fanatics – the most loyal and obedient – are children. Fans are childish. You might make a good GM if you always just never do what they want you to.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Kash..I don’t even know how to respond!! But, ‘I’m bored’, so I’ll give it a shot. Favorite line: “It is not optimism but insight into Idzik’s decision-making that guides my thought”. I love it: you have insight it to John Idzik!!!

    Let me educate you a little (though I know you believe that’s not possible), a bond trader (which is what I wrote is very different from a bond broker. The trader takes principal risk..a position. A broker is an intermediary and someone who takes some transactional risk, but never any principal risk.

    Yes, that certainly shapes the way I view things. I play probabilities. What it has also taught me is a few things that I think apply: First, ‘you are not right, the market is right’, and second, ‘it’s not about right or wrong, it’s about making money’. That’s a big key to success, IMO. If you can’t recognize when you’re wrong, you’ll never be successful, in anything. When I read comments about the ‘correct process’ and ’3-5 year plans’, I can’t help but laugh. That is all theory, and doesn’t apply to the real world. John Maynard Keynes wrote: ‘the market can stay irrational, longer than you can stay solvent’. I think the same applies. Between 2010, and 2013, what GM drafted the most players, who started an NFL game? The answer is Jeff Ireland, and he’s out of a job. Mark Jackson had the best 2 consecutive seasons, in the last 40 years, in Golden State, and was fired. Anyone who thinks Woody is going to sit around, and give Idzik 5 years, without seeing any results, isn’t playing good probabilities. Yes, there will be outliers, but those are less predictable.

    Oh, and you’re right…I don’t do massive amounts of coke…wouldn’t work well with my ADHD.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. It’s hilarious how you always take the opposite view of whatever position someone else takes! According to you everything is a shade of grey. The fact of the matter is that there are proven ways to build an NFL franchise. It doesn’t guarantee success but does improve your chances of being successful. Kash is right on so many points but it is just your nature to be contrary that I think you do it even though you know you’re wrong. Let’s take a look at the points Kash makes:

    (1) It is not optimism but insight into Idzik’s decision-making that guides my thought.
    -> The fact that you can’t understand what he means by this is proof positive that you simply like to argue for the sake of arguing. Idzik has been very clear on what guides his decision-making. If you paid a little more attention to what he said you might get a clue into his philosophy.

    (2) Anyway, Idzik kept all his seven picks on the roster last season, so he is probably planning to do the same this year. Except this roster is definitely more talented than it was last year, so he will have to make harder choices this year. …. Anyway, I wrote yesterday that I expect competition – Idzik’s motto – and competition means some lose out. McIntyre, Hill, Walls, and Nelson need to show why they should get the nod over rookies with more upside.
    -> Pretty straight forward logic and not hard to understand unless you just want to argue for the sake of arguing.

    (3) Rex’s defense did not call for great cornerbacks; Rex had great cornerbacks and used them to their full abilities. (Such schemes “devalued” the safety position by Rex wanting workmen safeties that were willing to stop the run and blitz more often than they were used to.) When the corners became less talented, the options were to find another once-in-twenty-years talent at cornerback or just go and get a decent safety. Pryor makes the team’s safety play rise from below average to average with the potential for greatness.
    -> Again pretty straight forward thinking and based on actual historical data such as Rex’s time in Baltimore when he had less than excellent corners but more than serviceable safeties.

    (4) But we must have a #1 receiver! Even though our OC is a genius that was able to make a 5-9, 175 lbs. receiver that was the 49th pick in his draft one of the most dangerous receivers in the league. Even though our offensive scheme spreads the ball around and exploits mismatches rather than relying on receivers to beat coverage. Even though our head coach has running the ball in his soul and a new thousand-yard rusher to complement his sixth-best rushing offense in the league. But the fan base needs to get the receiver monkey off its back, so the GM must oblige.
    -> Again pretty straight forward thinking that can only be challenged by someone hell bent on being the devil’s advocate.

    (5) Never listen to the fans. That should be the first commandment for every GM. As Lidman pointed out, “fan” comes from “fanatic” and the best fanatics – the most loyal and obedient – are children. Fans are childish. You might make a good GM if you always just never do what they want you to.
    -> How anyone can argue with this is beyond me.

    The difference between Idzik and previous Jet GMs is that he does NOT panic. He sticks to his game plan/philosophy regardless of what the media or fans are saying. Gone are the days that the GM panics and trades up for a stiff like Dewayne Robertson or Johnny Lam Jones, etc. Gone are the days when we only have 4 picks in a draft. Gone are the days that we give in to jerks like Mevis. I personally want to thank Idzik for restoring sanity to the Jets management.

    I think you should stop trying to be the devil’s advocate and try to appreciate the job that Idzik is trying to do. He may or may not succeed but he’s the best thing to happen to the Jets in a long long time.

  • Geronimo

    I am addicted to roster gazing. I keep my eye on guys with promise and have irrational hopes for them. For me, this brings as much enjoyment as watching games. It was great fun to watch Snacks eat up halfbacks.

    But I’m tired of hoping Mauga and Berry make it through a season, or that Gates turns a corner. 12 picks was perfect for my addiction. The fat little bowling ball of a DE will be interesting to follow, and I would like to watch Enunwa collide with Pryor in scrimmages.

    It will be a fun preseason.

  • Joe Caporoso

    You make a really good, understated point here Geronimo. Why leave this draft with 12 picks, instead of constantly trading up or trading picks away for veterans? The Jets depth and special teams have been a problem the past 2-3 years. The three player examples you just gave were perfect, people like Mauga, Gates, Berry haven’t been able to stay healthy or productive. Further examples could be Josh Bush or some the rotational linebackers by the end of last year (Cunningham, T.Davis) or the WRs who received major reps in certain games (Spadola, Obomanu, Salas, Hakim)…The Jets needed to shake up the back of their roster and add some competition to it.

  • Dan in RI

    It’s still too early to judge Idzik. Heck, I still don’t know what grade to give last year’s draft, because I don’t know what to make of Milliner, Smith, Winters, much less the project OL’s Campbell and Aboushi. Three out of the first 4 draft picks last year struggled, then seemed to finally get it in the last month of the season.We’ll have to see whether they build on that or not. My guess is that they will all have strong sophomore seasons–especially Smith. I think he really turned a corner over the last 4 games, and having Decker, Amaro, Kerley (who was his security blanket last year), and Chris Johnson catching balls out of the backfield will make a huge difference. If Milliner, Smith and Winters take that next step, then Rex is right: last year’s draft was an A+.

    As for Aboushi and Campbell–I think the fact that we only drafted one OL out of 12 picks may indicate that the coaches saw more progress there than most of us believe.

    I can certainly gripe about some of the picks this year. Like most people, I was sure that either Dennard or Cooks were going to hear their names called instead of Pryor. But a lot of that was because everyone in the world was focused on our troubles at CB and WR–but the sorry state of our safeties has been a problem since Rex got here. Our best safety was the one year rental LaRon Landry. And clearly the front office felt Pryor was a better foundation-stone to the defense than Dennard. Think of what a great safety can do for a defense: Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Kam Chancellor.

    Amaro was a great value in the middle of the second round, I thought. McDougle was a reach only in the sense that most people didn’t think he’d be drafted before the middle or even late rounds. But the front office apparently felt that he would have been drafted much earlier if he’d been healthy last season, and they were worried that some other team might have come to the same conclusion. For all I know, they might be right.

    To be honest, I never heard of most of our other picks (except Boyd) before this weekend. I have no idea if they will pan out. They are a very motley, and very interesting bunch. My guess is that Dozier, George, Dixon, and Saunders will not only make the team, but will be with the team for a long time–some of them may even be starting by next year. Saunders will most likely be our punt returner this year, and George will give us depth at ILB, which we desperately needed.

    The wildcard in the draft is Boyd. He may turn into a much better QB than people are giving him credit for–I wouldn’t be surprised if the eventually becomes a starter in the NFL (but not necessarily for us).

  • Joe Caporoso

    Very well said and fair, Dan.

  • Ed

    Actually, I think you’re going to be very impressed/surprised by McDougle. The kid has demonstrated near perfect technique as a Junior. Watch his highlights and tell me Revis could cover as well. Revis wasn’t an interception machine. This kid looks like he could very well be!

  • Ed

    Did not see the Jalen Saunders highlights til now! Wow! Guys is electric!!! Great pick!

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Frank …it’s a good you don’t ‘like’ Idzik. Listen to any general manager and they will say the same exact thing: “we like to build through the draft”. Find me one GM who is quoted as saying: “we are going to build are roster via Free Agency”. This idea of ‘having a proven strategy’ is great if you’re writing a thesis paper. The NFL-’Not For Long’-is a results oriented business. What do you do for a living? If you don’t perform, and your boss tells you he has to let you go, how do you think the argument of ‘I know the results aren’t there, but the process is correct’ is going to go over. Even if you’re self employed and you employ a ‘proven strategy’, if you can’t implement it, you’re going to fail. I don’t know if that will happen here, just as you don’t know if it will. I just think Idzik has misplayed his advantage this off season.

    I’ll spell it out in more simple terms: I don’t give a rat’s ass about Idzik’s intelligence, whether or not he panics (I love how you, like Kash, know his character traits so well by what you see in his press conferences..comical), what his ‘process’ is, or how he takes his coffee. I will rate Idzik on the quality of the players he acquires (and I won’t discriminate how he acquires them), and how the team performs…that’s it.

    Revis, like him or not, was acquired when the NYJ traded up. David Harris was acquired by moving up. The Saints won a Superbowl, largely because of Drew Brees, who was acquired in Free Agency. Denver acquired Peyton Manning and went to the Superbowl. Belechick has been trading down, to acquire more picks, for as long as I can remember, and he still hasn’t found a great DB, or WR. Even Seattle..do they win a Superbowl last year without the Avril and Bennett free agent acquisitions? Continuing to profess the need to build through the draft isn’t necessary, it’s understood by all. You simply can’t get that much young, inexpensive talent anywhere else. This idea that you don’t think I understand that is wrong. However, it doesn’t mean I’ll agree with everything that is done.

    You’d have been great in Nazi Germany, I can hear it now: “Fellas, this Hitler guy is finally the adult we’ve been waiting for. He has a proven plan and process, so why should I question anything he does.”

    Frank, in the end, it’s football and doesn’t really mean that much. I’m a NYJ fan, and I root for them to win. Go back and read comments I wrote, on this site, before last season and I was as positive as anyone. I think Idzik mishandled the wealth of money and picks he had this off season. I could be wrong, and time will prove that out.

    Finally, I don’t take the opposite view of ‘whatever position someone else takes’. You and I have different views. Jeremiah Johnson and I have different views. Half the time I don’t understand Kash, so I sometimes when I think we’re disagreeing, he thinks we’re agreeing. I appreciate you re-writing Kash’s email though, you made it much clearer.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    “Actually, I think you’re going to be very impressed/surprised by McDougle. The kid has demonstrated near perfect technique as a Junior. Watch his highlights and tell me Revis could cover as well. Revis wasn’t an interception machine. This kid looks like he could very well be!”

    See, it’s comments like this…sorry but I can’t help myself…Ed has actually written that the best cover CB the game has seen in the past 20yrs, isn’t as good as Dexter McDougle…look, he wrote that. I can’t help myself. Next, we’ll be getting guys looking at tape suggesting, Jalen Saunders is better than Brandon Cooks or Sammy Watkins.

  • Joe Caporoso

    Lidman – You’ll get a nice side by side comparison of a team built the way Idzik has and the way you prefer by watching the Bills and Raiders this year. Buffalo mortgaged their future to go get Sammy Watkins and traded away a mid-round pick for Bryce Brown. Oakland went crazy in free agency on name veterans late in their career. We’ll see what happens with the 3 teams side by side this year and in the coming years as a good barometer of the different approaches.

  • LeeBur

    Yeah that Revis/McDougle definitely gave me a nice chuckle.

    Lidman- while I agree that it would have been nice to get some upgrades in free agency. I kind of feel like doing that this season would be like putting $10,000 rims on a Ford Focus. I think we need to wait for the core of this team to become a Corvette before we start spending big. But thats just my opinion. Weird analogy, but thats the best i could come up with.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Joe..looking forward to it…again, I’m smart enough to realize I don’t know everything. But, you raise a very interesting point, and I think support some of what I’m saying. Buffalo may be screwing up royally, but listen to what the front office and coach said: ‘we want to win now’. Their ownership situation is in flux. If they don’t have winning product, and the team is sold to a new ownership group, what are the odds they have any chance of staying? This is survival of the fittest and self preservation. If Idzik truly believes what he’s saying and will make all decisions based on what he believes is in the long term, best interest of the team and not his employment status, it’s very admirable. If he were working for the NYG or Pittsburgh, he might get more leeway to do that.

    Here’s a hypothetical for you: if I was the major investor in your website, or any other business, and we agreed on a 3-5yr plan, for growth you would have a certain strategy, correct? Say, after year 2, I come to you and say “Joe, I don’t like the direction and we’re not we’re we thought we’d be after 2yrs, I’m thinking of liquidating, but I’ll give you another year”. Now, first I’m sure you’d start looking for another source of capital, but if that weren’t possible, isn’t it fair to believe you might change the way you operate your business? To me, that’s what’s happening in Buffalo.

    As for Oakland, as I’ve said before, before Green Bay put it together in the 90s, they were a 20yr old failure. The Giants were awful until the mid 80s, SF stunk in the 70s, was the model franchise from the 80s to mid 90s, and then stunk for 10yrs. McKenzie utilized his ample cap space, with no real long term commitments and the last 2yrs has built via the draft. He’s brought in high character buys: Tuck, Woodley, Schaub and drafted guys like Mack and Carr to develop. We mock the Raiders because of their failures of the past 10yrs, but McKenzie has been there for 3, and came into an awful situation. I don’t see how his situation is any different that Idzik.

    I enjoy the site. I enjoy the banter. I don’t take anyone that seriously, and I like being entertained. However, a year ago, the discussions and articles were much more diverse in opinion. Now, the majority of pieces written are all one sided and very pro NYJ. In fact, the only real negative piece, from you, in the past 12 months, was for jettisoning the head coach, oh and you’re consistent, and deserved, bashing of Stephen Hill. Sure, you’ve mentioned how Campbell/Aboushi were kept on the 53 man last year, but other than that it’s all roses. I believe you have access, so I’m sure you’re privvy to some things I’m not. However, access and information doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be right. I just offer opinions, based on what I see and read.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    By the way, how’d NY get Chris Ivory? In essence, Buffalo traded Stevie Johnson, who’s been injured, and was going to be a likely cap casualty next year, and brought in a young RB, who is cheap and provides depth to a RB unit that is getting old (FJax) and has a hard time staying healthy (both of them). If Brown has an Ivory-type year, will that be good value? You do believe that was good value for the NYJ, right?

  • http://medicfl1.wordpress.com MedicFL1

    Short and to the point. We needed jace Amaro and prior was a solid pick. But from there we need to trade up for a solid receiver.
    Assuming we’re sticking with Geno, cj2k & Amaro provide that quick release short game we’ll need.
    Remember the team will be focusing on a 20 or less passing game and since we didn’t trade up for a top receiver to take pressure off Decker, as we should have, Johnson and Amaro will have to be used in the short game.
    Once that is established it should open up Decker.
    We will need a long ball as our line can’t hold defenses off the entire game.
    This theory assumes Geno will be more comfortable in the pocket this year.
    Run screen and over the middle to amaro will give us a few chances per game to hit Decker long.
    I see a better year than last year but I believe not trading up for a good WR on the third pick was a mistake.
    If all actually goes right (which has not been the case of late) and we do have an adequate receiver on the other side it will be geno’s game to lose.
    We have some real offensive talent here now, coupled with a great D-line. If Pryor pans out,milliner gets better, opponent’s should be fighting for every TD.
    The potential is here now, this year, and we better not let Geno squander it.
    Next draft we’ll have linemen positions to fill so this has to be the year Geno improves.

  • Joe Caporoso

    I write my opinion. I like the direction the team is headed. I’m not going to manufacture a false opinion to create more negative articles. I think there has been consistency and vision behind every move and a semblance of a plan/philosophy. Whether that works long term, we’ll see but I like what the team has done in the past 18-24 months.

    Also I didn’t even write this article and I don’t find this article to be all roses at all, I think it poses a ton of fair questions about their approach. Well done by TJ, who wrote it.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. You’re really upset that most of the discussion is pro NYJ. LOL. I think you’ve exposed your true colors! I think it’s pretty obvious to any impartial observer that this team is in much better shape than when Idzik was hired. The Jets have gone from a laughing stock (which maybe you preferred) to a well managed professional sports team.

  • David

    Here is the problem I have when I hear Idzik talk about competition: Whether he wants to admit it or not, most of his roster is already set and you are going to have very few open spots. Let’s look at, and of course I know this is just my opinion, the Jets roster and here is what we can already decipher as to what the locks on the roster are likely to look like without even having training camp or preseason:

    QB– Vick, Geno, one of Tajh/Matt Simms
    RB– Powell, Ivory, Chris Johnson
    FB– Bohanon
    WR– Decker, Kerley, Nelson, Ford (ST threat)
    TE– Amaro, Cumberland, Sudfield
    O-line– Ferguson, Winters, Colon, Mangold, Giacomini, Dozier
    D-line– Wilkerson, Harrison, Richardson, Ellis, Douzable
    LB– Coples, Harris, Davis, Pace, Barnes, Bellore, McIntyre
    CB– Milliner, Wilson, Patterson, Walls, Lankster, McDougle
    S– Landry, Pryor, Allen, Bush
    ST– Folk, Punter, Purdum

    Right there, without hardly any thinking is 46 of the 53 roster spots that quite honestly are already set in stone today on May 13. So what is really left on the Jets– a #5 WR, a backup LB, perhaps a 7th CB or a safety, maybe one or two more o-linemen?

    The Jets roster is not hard to figure out. Most of the Jets 2014 picks, especially in later rounds, will likely make our practice squad.

  • David

    Plus, people talk about “Give Idzik” time; it is too easy to turn things around in the NFL to have to wait 4-5 years for someone to turn “things around.” I know I am different than a lot of people, but if the Jets don’t make the playoffs this year, Rex should be gone and Idzik should be squarely on the hot seat in 2015.

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  • Jeremiah Johnson

    The Jets went 8-8 last year, a 2 game improvement over the previous year. Idzik has already “turned things around,” especially considering the the sad state of affairs that Tanny left the team in.

  • Joe Caporoso

    David. I would say out of the 46 mentioned, Ford, Bush, McIntyre, Sudfeld and Bohanon don’t have roster spots in stone.

  • LeeBur

    David- you may be right. Only speaking for myself here, but the “give idzik time” label is not for a 4-5 year period. Im expecting a playoff birth at minimum in 2015. if the roster is not competitive by then, then i agree Idzik should be on the hot seat.

  • Joe Caporoso

    I think that is fair LeeBur/David. If Jets aren’t in the playoffs this year or next year? Idzik is absolutely on the hot seat.

    Remember, Seattle’s first 2 years under Schnieder/Carroll: 7-9, 7-9. They got a biiiiiig break getting in the playoffs that first year at 7-9.

    Personally, if you asked me to predict the Jets record today, I’d say they are a 9-7 type team. I picked them to go 7-9 last year and they did one better. Hopefully they can do that again.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Frank, the team played in consecutive championship games in ’09-’10, and have since missed the playoffs for 3 consecutive years, and are a cumulative 4 games under .500. I’d love to hear your definition of ‘laughing stock’. But, based on your statement, I’m guessing there are fewer than 10 teams in the league that AREN’T laughing stocks.

    My ‘true colors’??? Yes, Frank, I’m really a Giant fan and spend countless hours doing all I can to annoy Jet fans? Find me a post where I truly criticize and Idzik move. All I’ve said is I think he misunderstood the supply/demand curve as it relates to this year’s cap increase and the f/a market. I also believe he should have used his plethora of draft picks to move up and draft players in the top 3 rounds, because history tells us that the majority of impact players are drafted there. Great we may have found some more depth and competition and maybe even a few ‘Special Teamers’. You can use UFAs for ‘Special Teams’ and development too. I’d rather he was able to pick more players, from his top 100, that’s all.

    I agree with the approach he has taken because it was the only approach available. He got here and the team was old, and had cap issues. What else could he co? He traded his best player, who the owner wouldn’t sign, and has done Ok, on that trade. Dont’ tell me that Revis=Richardson, because if that trade doesn’t happen, it’s likely they take Richardson at 9. .But if we look at last year’s draft, without the Richardson pick it would be heavily scrutinized. Milliner still has a lot to prove. He also drafted Geno, which I liked, but if Vick replaces him this year (I don’t think that will happen), to me that’s a failure on his part. He took Winters in round 3, and the jury is still out there too…remember, Keenan Allen, Terrence Williams and Jordan Reed (all positions of real need last year) were taken shortly after Winters. I liked the Ivory move. His 5th and 6th rounders haven’t done anything and his 7th round pick was his son’s college roommate.

    Where is the depth behind Calvin Pace? Could LaMarr Woodley provided that? What did he cost Oakland-1yr/$4.8mm, no long term cap ramifications. What about WR? Hakeem Nicks cost Indy 1yr/$5mm. What happened to the reports regarding Denarius Moore? We can surmise about Saunders, Shaq, Hill, Nelson and anyone else on the roster all we want, but do you really think they should be comfortable with that WR group? Gronk was great as a rookie, find me another TE who really made a huge impact as a rookie. CB??? Oh, and you say he doesn’t panic, yet according to mulitple reports, he was Jace Amaro’s Pro-Day, and scrambled to improve his offer to DRC. To me, when you offer someone a contract, you want them. Maybe it wouldn’t have made a difference and maybe he wouldn’t have come here, but if the situation is described correctly, I think it’s fair to be critical of him. On the flip side, I give him all the credit for getting Decker, who’s been a proven producer in the league.

    You say the team is much better shape. But, when I look at the current roster, and look at their schedule, Jet fans will be counting on a lot of improvement, from a lot of players, if they are going to make the playoffs. If they don’t, Rex will not be back. At that point, Idzik will have made 18 draft picks, and will again have one of the best cap situations in the NFL. But hey, at least he’ll have a good process….

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. I was obviously taking about the fact that they were a laughing stock when he took them over not in 09 and 10. Jesus man you can be very dense or just like to be argumentative. I think it’s pretty obvious to any impartial observer that this team is in much better shape than when Idzik was hired. He has turned it from a laughing stock to a well managed professional sports team. If you can’t see that by adding Decker, Johnson, Vick and 12 draft picks in a loaded draft this team has improved then I can’t help you. Does it guarantee success, NO, but it does at least give them a chance. From where they were and all the “experts” predictiing a 2 win season last year I don’t see how anyone can say that Idzik hasn’t done a good job.

  • Lidman

    Ok..so what you’re saying is 2yrs is sufficient enough time to make a decision to change the direction of your team, right? So, the team made the title game in both ’09 and ’10. The following 2 seasons they went 4 games under .500, and Tannebaum paid the price. I’m not saying that is either fair or unfair, it is what it is. Again, I don’t see how that makes you a ‘laughing stock’, but whatever. Idzik has had 2 drafts now, and 1 f/a period where he had ample resources to make moves. If the NYJ go 7-9, is it ok to fire him?

    Stop referring to what ‘experts’ say. You love to pick and choose the comments that fit your arguments. Look at this statement:

    “I think it’s pretty obvious to any impartial observer that this team is in much better shape than when Idzik was hired. He has turned it from a laughing stock to a well managed professional sports team.”

    First, I agree with your first statement, as I said above, you just chose to ignore that. I disagree with your second statement and read it this way: “This is my opinion, and if you don’t agree with it, your dense”. I don’t agree with everything Freddie Mac says, but he and I do agree on some points. Oh wait, he’s not impartial, because he doesn’t agree with you. LeeBur has made comments that don’t fully support all of Idzik’s moves. He must not be impartial..that’s what is.” You, of course, are totally impartial. You were probably clamoring for Tanny’s job in ’09 and ’10, because even though the team was making deep playoff runs, you disagreed with the process.

    I do not care how it gets done, in the end all that matters is results. As a die hard Jet fan, I loved the ’09 and ’10 seasons because they gave us a ride deep into January. Tannebaum went about things in a certain manor, and it worked out ok. Now, had he won a SB, he’d likely still be here-Jerry Reese/Tom Coughlin are proof positive of how winning that trophy allows for a lot of missed playoff years. Unfortunately, for Tanny, he didn’t win, and his aggressiveness came at a cost, and he lost his job. So, in closing, I don’t care about draft grades and roster depth. I could give a hoot what Bill Polian says or how Phil Simms rates this year’s QBs vs last year’s QBs. It doesn’t impress me that Idzik stayed true to his board and let the draft come to him. At this point, with all that cap space, and all those draft picks, there are still a number of question marks, at starting positions, on this team. If it works out and they win, I’ll be the charter member of the Idzik fan club; I promise. The process is secondary to winning. You can point to Seattle and tell me that is the blueprint. PIttsburgh has a process and they’re in a playoff drought too. Jeff Ireland had a process, and drafted more NFL starters than any other GM, from 2010-2013 and he’s looking for a job. Because I know how much you love Oakland, I’ll leave you with this:

    “Just win baby!!!” -A Davis

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    While very few know the reason why Tanny was fired, it’s very fair to assume the “circus” headlines & all the players, agents, & coaches sniping at each other via anonymous quotes in the media played as much of a role, if not a larger role, in his firing than the 6-10 record. Woody has generally been a patient owner, but it would have been irresponsible to allow Tanny to remain as GM since the team had certainly become a laughingstock & was regularly mocked in the media towards the end of his tenure.

    It appears very obvious to me that Idzik has prioritized stopping the leaks (buh-bye Matt Slauson) & avoiding any players that have or might contribute to a continuation of the “circus” storyline in the media (DeSean Jackson, for example).

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. You love putting words in my mouth. I NEVER liked Tanny. The only reason the Jets were successful in 09 an 10 was because Rex did a great coaching job. Rex took a mediocre defense and instantly made it the number one defense in the NFL. Tanny had no part in that. In fact all Tanny did was mortgage the future so that within 2 years we were a team without playmakers and devoid of any depth. Idzik is a huge upgrade over Tanny. If we turn back to the Tanny ways I’ll be the first one to complain about the direction of the team.

    P.S. Get used to positive articles on the NYJ because they are heading in the right direction. If you don’t like that you are free to leave.

  • LeeBur

    Frank- while I am on your side with the whole Idzik philiosophy, Lidman does make some great points like passing on Allen/Reed for Winters as well as the success rate of later round picks. I think its good to hear other sides of the spectrum. While I dont agree with the big free agent spending Lidman wanted to see (big money corner, Revis??) all his points are valid. It does come off as sounding negative, but to me its just another side of the story.

  • Frank Antonelli

    LeeBur. You’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that all of Idzik’s move would work out. That is totally unrealistic and no GM is perfect. You can always point out mistakes. However, this is really about the general direction of the team, which in my opinion is positive. I think everyone who was up in arms at the beginning of free agency should have listened to Bill Polian who knows more about developing a winning organization then anyone on here:

    “The first thing I would say to Jets fans is relax, there’s a long way to go between now and September,” said former Bills, Panthers and Colts general manager Bill Polian, who is now an ESPN analyst. “That’s point No. 1. Secondly, there’s plenty of time to participate in the secondary free-agent market, which is very often the most efficient and advantageous. That’s still to come.”

    Polian, who built six teams that went to Super Bowls, said throwing dollars at big-named players rarely solves a team’s problems.

    “History shows that the teams that make the biggest splashes early in free agency frequently bottom out,” Polian said.

    The bottom line is that Idzik wants to recreate what he saw with the Seahawks, where draft picks became the core of a Super Bowl team. If you don’t like that approach and prefer the Tanny way then I can’t help you. If you can’t see that he has improved this team by adding Decker, Vick, Johnson and 12 draft picks then I can’t help you either.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    LeeBur,

    To be clear, if the NYJ were cap strapped, or even close to the cap, I wouldn’t have liked the idea of bringing in Revis. My point there was: here is a great-not good,great-football player, that instantly makes this team much better. To me, it was short sighted, and frankly, dumb, for Woody to not make that move. But, that is just an opinion. When you get emotional about money, you wind up losing it. Right and wrong doesn’t matter. There isn’t anyone who is ‘impartial’ that can say this team wouldn’t be better with a CB, of Revis’ caliber (so Revis, because he’s basically all there is) on it…but I digress…time to get ‘dense’ for Frank the name caller…..

    Frank, I’m not putting any words in your mouth. Did you make this statement?

    “Lidman. I was obviously taking about the fact that they were a laughing stock when he took them over not in 09 and 10.”

    I read this as you implying that the NYJ were not a laughing stock then, is that correct? If that is correct, would you say the GM was doing a ‘good job’?I mean if the team gets to 2 consecutive title games, their process is working, no? My point is, everyone jumps ship when results aren’t there and nobody gives a hoot about process. Tannebaum’s process got the NYJ to consecutive title games, which no other GM in Jet history did. His ‘process’ also put the team in cap hell, and lead to the ‘laughing stock’ ’11-’12 when they ‘tanked’ to a disasterous 4 whole games under .500.

    On your reference to Rex, is it fair for me to imply that the only reason the NYJ went 8-8 last year, was Rex? I mean if Tannebaum gets no credit for the ’09 and ’10 success, but all the blame for the failure that followed, how do we give credit to Idzik for last year? It’s just a question.

    Let’s really examine the Frank quote: “The only reason the Jets were successful in 09 an 10 was because Rex did a great coaching job. Rex took a mediocre defense and instantly made it the number one defense in the NFL. Tanny had no part in that.”

    Really? Who fired Mangini? Who brought in Rex? Who traded up for Revis? Who traded up for David Harris? Who signed Alan Faneca? Who signed Bart Scott? Who brought in Jim Leonhard? Who traded for Braylon Edwards? Who drafted Matt Slauson? Even the Sanchez trade-he moved up 12 spots, in the first round, and gave up a 2nd rounder and a bunch of Special Team guys! Look at what other teams are giving up to move up…now, it didn’t work out, but you, of all people, have to admire ‘the process’. Are you telling me none of the above moves had ANYTHING to do with the NYJ playing in 2 championship games…none?

    I am on record as saying a lot of what Tanny did came at the expense of the last 2yrs. But, if you think Woody Johnson didn’t come to him in ’09 and say: “Hey baldy, I have a new stadium being built, PSLs to sell and the economy is cratering. We need to do something!!! We have a coach who won’t talk. The legendary QB we traded for last year, used us, and we have nothing. We need to make a splash”.

    BTW, from here on out, when I say ‘like’ or ‘dislike’ in relation to Idzik or Tanny, I’m talking their perfomance…neither of us can like or dislike anyone we don’t know. You ‘like’ Idzik. I’m reserving judgement. You ‘disliked’ Tanny. I ‘liked’ him, but understand why he had to go.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Question: How does adding a injury prone QB, who including his renaissance year, under MM in 2010, is 20-20, and has a sub 59% completion percentage ‘improving’ this team? The Eagles went 10-6 last year…and 2-4 under Vick…I can totally see how he’s going to improve the team. Oh, and that team had arguably the best OLine, in football, LeSean McCoy and DeSean Jackson. Guys like Brent Celek or Zack Ertz would have easily been the NYJ #1 TE, and Riley Cooper or Jason Avant would have started. So, sorry, if I’m skeptical of him being a huge improvement, then call me a ‘hater’. The numbers support my worries. Decker was a solid pick up, but remember, this is a team that had the worst WR corp in the league, and a ton of salary cap space, so he had to do something. Finally, CJ2K was a great move, but it’s not like he orchestrated it. The guy got cut, and had limited places to go. Let’s not make it out, like Idzik sold Johnson on coming here.

    First I put words in your mouth…then LeeBur put words in your mouth…it’s all the same: if you disagree with Frank, ‘he can’t help you’ and you are either ‘dense’ or an ‘idiot’. Bill Polian (the same guy who wanted to trade a young P Manning: http://goo.gl/VGdbMg) knows more about winning football than anyone, so nobody else’s opinion matters. Mind you, Frank’s idle (and yes, I’m putting words in your mouth here) got fired, because while he may have understood ‘the almighty process’, he stunk at his job: http://goo.gl/ORFpqP

    If he didn’t have Peyton Manning carrying him, he’d have been dumped years earlier.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. I’m convinced that you just like to be a devil’s advocate/contrarian. I can recall once when I agreed with your post and you suddenly took the opposite approach. I’m positive that if the general tenor of this board was anti-Jet you would suddenly become a positive poster who liked Idzik!

  • Frank Antonelli

    I’m sure this review will be dismissed out of hands by the negative contingent on this board. You know who you guys are!

    Matt Bitonti is the Publisher of Draftdaddy.com and is the offensive line specialist for Footballguys.com.

    Well fellow Jets fans, another NFL draft, is in the books. Let’s hitchhike through these picks, shall we?

    Round 1: S Calvin Pryor, Louisville
    Pryor will be an instant starter right now and hopefully for 10+ years. At the risk of jinxing this player terribly, Pryor is possibly an all-time great pick; Rodney Harrison or Ronnie Lott are not completely unrealistic expectations. Yes I know that’s a crazy prediction to make. But everyone I talked to raves about this player. He describes himself as fearless and it’s clear from the film that he’s an impact player. He can ball hawk, not strictly a run support player, and a huge upgrade over Dewan Landry or whoever they were planning to trot out there at safety.

    The Jets defense wasn’t actually elite last season. They got their sacks and were great against the run but how many times were they burned on third and real long? The Calvin Pryor selection is a direct response to that problem.

    Who else could they have taken? The only value WR the Jets could get day one was Brandin Cooks, and it’s hard to imagine a lineup with Cooks and Jeremy Kerley on the field at the same time. I personally might have selected Darqueze Dennard but Dennard might not have started as a rookie (more on that when we discuss the McDougle pick). Pryor will start, and that’s a draft pick that has more impact.

    A quick word about the value of the safety position, there were four safeties in round one but only three quarterbacks. The Cardinals trade down and subsequent pick of Deone Buchanon seemed like a pouty response to Pryor going two slots earlier. The Packers took Hasean Clinton-Dix and the Niners took Jimmy Ward, one year after taking Eric Reid in a similar spot. Safeties are at a premium these days, and with all the changes to the game emphasizing passing, it makes sense that safeties would go up in value.

    It’s also clear that Pryor was graded out higher than most players left on the board, as many respected sources had him as a top 15 pick. The Jets have only had two drafts in the John Idzik era but a hallmark of his selections in round one is “someone who could have gone higher.”

    Round 2: TE Jace Amero, Texas A&M
    There was a point during the draft process when Jace Amero was basically a first round lock. There are many examples from the board where Jets fans were hoping all spring he’d be the pick at 18. To get this player at 49 is enormous value. Amero fell to round two for various reasons (not running an elite 40 yard dash is one possible weight on his stock), but he’s a huge target who creates match-up issues against linebackers and safeties, and can immediately upgrade the passing attack. As smart-but-shadowy message board poster Miss Lonelyheartspointed out, the fact Amero came from the Air Raid offense (same as Geno Smith) and produced as a Y position WR out of that system (basically the Wes Welker role) is a huge reason to like the pick. Obviously the Jets aren’t running the Air Raid but if they believe that Geno is the future (and passing on Manziel is an endorsement of sorts), having a tight end who is raised up in the same concepts can only help. Amero might not start right away over Jeff Cumberland but he will play double tights for sure and can contribute a ton as a rookie, motioning out as a receiver. This player will have to learn how to be an NFL quality blocker but that’s fixable and often the case with college tight ends.

    Round 3: CB Dexter McDougle, Maryland
    Jets fans went bananas about McDougle pick, in large part because they never heard of him. Also because we are Jets fans and we have to panic about something during the draft. But make no mistake, this player had buzz. Gil Brandt said he was a probable third round pick, based on his pro day, where McDougle vertical leapt something ridiculous like 37 inches. McDougle is a great athlete, who has been unlucky with injuries. The “good” news is all his injuries were upper body stuff (collarbone, shoulder, hand) and can still run like the wind. McDougle is a willing tackler and most of these injuries occurred while he was throwing himself at ball carriers. This is an injury-upside pick where the guy’s value could have been higher than it was, in theory, if he were healthy. Note that the Patriots basically made the same type of pick in round one. If a team is going to make this type of speculative reach its better they do it in round three than round one. It should also be noted that the third round has been a wasteland for this franchise in recent years (BJ Askew, the Boar Hunter) and it’s almost like they treated it as an early fourth rounder, which is fine by me.

    Fans shouldn’t expect McDougle to start in year one, as the Jets are paying Dimitri Patterson pretty well this year. This is why Darqueze Dennard didn’t make quite as much sense in round one as Calvin Pryor; the Jets are looking at a lineup of Dee Milliner, Patterson and Kyle Wilson for week 1. As other message board posters have pointed out, McDougle kinda sorta looks like Milliner in the face, which is a useless but fun corollary. But long term, McDougle has real potential to start in Rex’s system and it wasn’t as terrible a reach as some fans are making it out to be.

    Round 4: WR Jalen Saunders, Oklahoma
    As board guru Villian The Foe pointed out, Saunders is a dynamic punt returner. That’s important. Kerley has been doing that job when healthy and that’s a terrible way to run an impact special team position like PR. The guy who runs a 90 yard return can’t be busting his rear on offense too and be expected to make a huge play. Keep that returner fresh and maybe he breaks a big play. Some might say PR is not a “starter” position and to that I say don’t be a dummy.

    Saunders “starts” as a PR day one, and maybe he’s a replacement for Kerley on real offense someday over the rainbow. Or maybe he’s just an awesome punt returner and that’s fine.

    Round 4: WR Shaq Evans, UCLA
    Evans is a real interesting prospect, with upside to be a starter one day. Evans was a four star prep out of high school who transferred from Notre Dame to UCLA. This is not an uncommon route as Joseph Fauria made the same exact move on his way to the pros. After sitting out a year, Evans was the Bruins’ best receiver until he graduated. Evans is not perfect with his hands but he’s got pro attributes (6’1”, 210, 4.5 40 yard dash) and known as a hard worker. Evans is known as a deep threat as many of his catches went for over twenty yards. Evans probably needs time to develop the finer parts of being a pro wide receiver but he should be a good bet for the number four spot on the depth chart, and could overtake the perpetually disappointing Stephen Hill.

    Round 4: OG Dakota Dozier, Furman
    Prediction time: Dozier is probably the guy who replaces Willie Colon at right guard after next year. I don’t have much faith in either Will Campbell or Oday Aboushi, it’s safe to say that Dozier is a better prospect than both of them. Without waxing too poetic about a player whose obvious nickname is “Bull”, this kid is a mauler. A college tackle who will convert to guard, his stock in trade is getting out of his stance quickly and getting to the second level. Dozier does a nice job maintaining and finishing his block, and he’s had a number of pancake blocks over the course of his career. People might think Furman is a “small” school but Dozier played well against LSU and has further experience against top athletes through his all-star games. Nice pick who will sit a year but has actual starting potential as early as next season.

    Side note about all the round four picks, they were all at the Reese’s Senior Bowl down in Mobile, Alabama and all had really strong showings. It’s a smart strategy to go after the underclassmen early and use the fourth round on the solid but not amazing Senior Bowl performers. The Jets obvious had a plan when they were in Mobile and the fourth round is where it all came together.

    Round 5: ILB Jeremiah George, Iowa State
    George will start his career as a backup, behind Demario Davis and David Harris. However, George has real starting potential as the team has to be targeting David Harris big contract after this season. It’s hard to imagine a scenario where Harris (who was inherited from the Tannenbaum regime) is still here in 2015. It’s also hard to imagine a scenario where special teams dynamo Nick Bellore is starting on real defense. George is known as a thumper, and comes from a Cyclones program that has produced several decent ILB’s in recent years (A.J. Klein, Alvin Bowen). George is another explosive athlete with a 38.5 inch vertical leap and 4.66 40 yard dash at pro day. This is another pick with actual starting potential, and if you are keeping track, I said that about the six other picks so far. If the Jets can get even three or four starters out of this crop it will be remembered as a great draft. Seven starters would be moving at ludicrous speed.

    Round 6: CB Brandon Dixon, Northwest Missouri State
    Dixon is a raw athlete (former junior college transfer) who is probably going to start out on special teams, where he has experience contributing in college. Dixon has a ton of work to do to develop into a real NFL cornerback, but he reportedly has the work ethic to make the transition. Dixon doesn’t have blazing speed but his 4.4 40 yard dash at Indianapolis is certainly fast enough for the job. It’s not crazy to see this pick as McDougle insurance, the Jets need an eventual starter to come out of this draft, they hope between McDougle and Dixon they will get at least one. One would have to be a psychic to know which of these guys will make it but it’s safe to predict (or hope) that at least one won’t fail.

    Round 6: WR Quincy Enunwa, Nebraska
    Enunwa is a similar pick to Shaq Evans, in that he’s got professional size and speed, he’s a deep threat (99 yard touchdown against Georgia in the bowl game) and he looks good “getting off the bus” as they say. Like Evans, Enunwa is far from a finished product and he especially needs to work on mastery of the route tree; it’s not all going to be Go routes. Enunwa is known as a capable run blocker and an all around physical player. The thinking behind the pick is sound, it is a position of need and the Jets are clearly believers in the buckshot approach in this draft: take more than one at the same position of need hope at least one pans out. It would not be completely surprising to see this player on the practice squad, as he might be too raw to contribute this year (and unlikely to get poached when all he can do is run bomb routes).

    Round 6 DE/OLB IK Enemkpali, Louisiana Tech
    Enemkpali is an interesting pick. The Jets clearly need someone to replace Calvin Pace and backup Antwan Barnes, should the latter get hurt again. Enemkpali is probably not going to do all that in year one but unlike some of the other day three picks, this player might actually make the team. Enemkpali can contribute at special teams and as a situational pass rusher, as he learns the coverage aspects of standing up in Rex Ryan’s defensive system. He is not an amazing athlete (4.8 40 yard dash at pro day) but he’s known as a tenacious overachieverwith a high motor.

    Round 6 QB Tajh Boyd, Clemson
    This pick was met with great dismay by the fans, but I don’t see the problem. This isn’t Dave Yovanovitz. He wasn’t drafted as a favor to Rex’s son Seth (the walk on linebacker). Boyd is a draft able quarterback with big game experience against ACC and SEC foes. He plays well in these games (especially the LSU bowl game in 2013). He can make the odd play with his legs. In theory, Boyd can be a back up and compete with Matt Simms for that third spot.
    At this point in the draft they aren’t necessarily looking for guys who will start right away, they are looking for guys who can make the team better in the long run. All of these sixth rounders can do that. Or they can wash out, but either way these are viable risks at this point in the process.

    Round 7 OLB Trevor Reilly, Utah
    Once upon a time, this player was rated as a first round prospect by Baltimore’s hair helmet hero, Mel Kiper. While that projection was probably overly hopeful, because of his age (26), Reilly had a really big year as a senior and ended up with a round three/four grade by NFL Draft Scout, who called him “surprisingly nimble”. Long term, Reilly could be in that mix for backup DE/OLB with Enemkpali and in the short term, he will hope to make this team as a special team player (also like Enemkpali).

    Notice the trend with the Jets draft, after rounds one and two: taking more than one athlete at the same position, and hoping at least one of the picks will hit. Overall this draft class has huge potential and the team did a great job loading up with talent. Maybe one day, in the near future, the Jets will be the type of team where their late round picks don’t automatically make the roster. If that happens it will be because of the success of drafts like this one.

    P.S. Even the idiot Cimini and the clown Manish wouldn’t be ignorant enough to state that ”But this is essentially the same team”! Even they know that adding Decker, Johnson, Vick and 12 draft picks in a loaded draft adds playmakers and depth to a roster sorely in need of these additions.

  • Frank Antonelli

    I think that the Amaro pick isn’t being given the props it should be (other than by Joe and a few others). I think that the 2 TE set should be used a lot this year since with Amaro it will pose matchup problems. You can put both of them in there and run the ball or have Amaro flex out and then pass the ball. The defense will either be setup to defend the run or defend the pass. Geno can then decide to either run the ball or pass the ball depending on how the defense is setup. You can then run the hurry up off of this set if you find that you have a tactical advantage against the defense that is presently on the field. This should be a matchup nightmare for opposing defenses. And with Johnson in the backfield that would provide 5 legitimate passing targets on the field at the same time if Geno wanted to pass the ball.

  • LeeBur

    Frank- thanks for posting that. I like all the picks as they fill a need. Just wish the guy who wrote that article knew how to spell Amaro’s name correctly. He must be one of those guys who spells our GMs name Izik.

  • Frank Antonelli

    LeeBur. You’re welcome. I just found out that Lidman’s alter ego actually wrote that article!

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    I have zero comment on the draft picks. I don’t have the insight necessary. I know they needed a Safety, and reports on Pryor are good. They needed TE. I will say I’m skeptical about the very productive college TEs. If you look over the past few years a lot of the guys taken early, have under performed their draft slot. I am a Donte Moncrief fan..Ok, I have a crush on him, and after reading up on McDougle believe he would have been there, in the 20 spots after, where the NYJ have 2 picks. I will be surprised if Moncrief isn’t significantly better than Evans..time will tell. After that, I can’t comment. I will echo my wish that Idzik would have packaged later picks, to move back into the 3rd round, where the odds of getting a better player are much higher.

    Frank…you have to admit, if you opened up that link and read it, you were probably very surprised at how God awful Bill Polian’s draft record was while he was in Indy.

    I agree with your love of the Jets Frank. I’m just results oriented…I hope Idzik winds up as the best Jet GM ever!!!

  • KAsh

    @Lidman

    There is a logical concept called reducto ad absurdum. When you look for good GMs in football and the measure you are using tells you the best GM is Ireland, you need to cool off for five minutes, then go back and think about where you went wrong.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    No…what you need to realize is you can draft as badly as Bill Polian and, to an extent, Bill Belechick, but in today’s NFL, if you have Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, it will cover up a lot of ‘pimples’.

    In fact, I think the fact that Ireland has drafted more NFL starters, than any other GM, since 2010, just illustrates, now close all these guys are, in terms of finding talent. Bottom line, it doesn’t matter how well Ireland drafted, because it didn’t lead to the necessary results to stay employed. Yet, Bill Polian, has a 10yr period in which he’s terrible, but somehow he keeps his job.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. Recent history tells a different story. You don’t need an elite QB to win the Super Bowl. Serviceable to good is enough (Eli Manning/Flacco/Wilson). They beat the better QBs – Brady and Manning in 2 of the last 3 Super Bowls. An elite defense especially up front, good running game and better overall depth won out over elite QBs. Amazing since that is what Idzik is trying to build! The bottom line is that Idzik wants to recreate what he saw with the Seahawks, where draft picks became the core of a Super Bowl team.

  • KAsh

    Ireland drafted the most starters because all his players continue to leave the team. No one left from his 2008 draft. Hartline and Clemons are there from the 2009 draft. The first-round pick of his 2010 draft was bad as a starting DE, and now backs up the DT spot, which was considered a hole anyway going into this draft. In fact, his 2010 draft was his most successful in the sense of retaining talent, but they are mostly JAGs. For a team that basically only drafted OLs, DLs, RBs, DBs, TEs, and QBs (38 picks over Ireland’s six years), it is unbelievable that these are the very weaknesses of the team. It is probably fair to say that Ireland is so bad at picking players and building teams, he only strikes out and then is left drafting new starters year after year. Go look up their draft history.

    Of course, that pales in comparison to Tannenbaum. Just remember, Tannenbaum targeted Clemmens, Schlegel, Keller, Sanchez, Greene, McKnight, Conner, and Hill. He traded away picks and players for yearly rentals like Jenkins, O’Connell, Favre, and Tebow. And, he drafted the greatest bust in a long history of Jets draft busts, Vernon Gholston.

    A whole battery of studies have shown that individual stock traders cannot consistently match the return on market indexes. My favorite one showed that a sampling of random people on the street beat every professional stock market analyst after a span of three months because the people on the street did not overanalyze their picks. To build a core of sustainable growth, a good GM must know how to not outsmart himself. There is a lot of incentive to trade up in the draft and go for the big signing and win the back pages. You yourself want to seem like you are moving. The media heaps praise on you for livening up the offseason. The fan base feeds off the media, expands and becomes more vocal, and buys more season tickets and team merchandise. When he sees your work as slipping money into his pocket instead of asking for a handout and getting him free publicity and clout, your owner also starts liking you more. But you are not as smart as you think you are, and failed franchises are known to be the ones that have the greatest rotation at GM, head coach, and starting quarterback. If your owner and the fans want a successful franchise, then it is not one Super Bowl that you have to win, but build a franchise that is in the discussion for a Super Bowl every year. But to start, you need as many picks as possible because you do not know which ones will fail. There is really only one team that was built to be a contender by trading up for players in the draft – the Falcons – and they finished last in their division last year.

  • Frank Antonelli

    KAsh. You might find this site interesting from the perspective of “A whole battery of studies have shown that individual stock traders cannot consistently match the return on market indexes.”

    http://www.ifa.com/12steps/foreword/

  • David

    At the end of the day Frank, Lidman is right about one thing: Idzik, Rex, and the Jets will be judged by how they perform “on the field.” Say what you will, New England hasn’t had a great draft in a number of years, but people look the other way because they “win on the field.” People can say what they want about last year’s 8-8 season and how it was “better than expected.” I look at it as the Jets MISSED the PLAYOFFS!! People talk about how great Rex is and what he has done for the Jets, but from what I see, he has been 8-8, 6-10, and 8-8 with 3 consecutive missed playoff seasons. And his defense isn’t the strength that it was in 2009; teams don’t fear Rex Ryan defenses right now!! How a head coach keeps a job with those results is beyond me? Any other coach would have been fired after the 2nd missed playoff season. It is too easy IMO to turn things around in the NFL and to have to sit and wait 3 years between playoff appearances is poor judgment on the NY Jets part. Do you think Rex should be fired if they miss the playoffs this year? I know I do and Idzik is on the hot seat in 2015 to produce a winning team!

    Plus, the whole “starter” thing that KAsh brought up is flawed too. You could say, if starters are your sole judge of things, that the 2009 draft of Sanchez, Greene, and Slauson was a “home run.” After all, that got us a QB who started 4 seasons for us and won 4 road playoff games; a running back who had 1000+ yards rushing for us; and finally, Slauson was our starting LG. Or take last year’s draft– Milliner was our #2 CB, Sheldon Richardson was DROY, Geno was our starter for 16 games, Brian Winters was our LG, and Tommy Bohanon was our starting FB/H-Back. Of those 5, at least after year 1, I think we can honestly say we “hit” on 1 player– Richardson. Milliner was outplayed by Darrin Walls, who should have been starting over him; Geno, outside of a few games here and there, should have been on the bench if the Jets had a reliable backup QB; Winters would have been on the bench if the Jets had something at G; and Bohanon wasn’t anything great either.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    lol @ wanting to fire a coach that has more AFC championship game appearances than losing seasons on his resume.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Frank, I think your argument is shallow and relies to heavily on outliers (remember you yourself just advocated passive investing, which entails going with what has proven to work..you’re a process guy!!!). Let’s look at the last 10 Superbowls and the QBs that got there:
    2005-Brady and McNabb: Brady is an all time great, McNabb was one of the 5 best QBs in the game at that time
    2006-P Manning and R Grossman: Manning is an all time great, Grossman is an outlier
    2007-Brady and E Manning: Eli was crucial in this run and has won 2 SB, and been the MVP in both, so I disagree with your assessment. Is he an ‘all time’ great? No, but certainly he’s proven to be an upper echelon QB
    2008-Roethlisberger and Werner: both guys are 3 time Superbowl QBs and both guys were top 5 QBs this year
    2009-P Manning and D Brees: 2 future HoFers
    2010-Roethlisberger and Rogers: 3x Superbowl QB and the guy widely regarded as best QB in the game
    2011-Repeat of ’07
    2012-Flacco and Kaepernick: I think you are right here and these are outliers, but I’m sure some would argue that Flacco is top QB-I wouldn’t.
    2013-Wilson and Manning: I think Wilson is the outlier, but his 1st 2 seasons compare favorably with some of the names on this list.

    It’s the most important position on the field, maybe in sports. I showed you how bad your hero, Bill Polian, drafted, yet P Manning continually got that team to the playoffs and in 2 Superbowls. Your theory suggests, to me, that we’ll be getting a new Superbowl participant every year. Seattle is an outllier situation…SF is an outlier…both don’t have to spend big $ on that position. Let’s see what happens when they do.

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    JJ, I agree with that, but it’s the nature of the business. So, while people, like Joe, may criticize the route Buffalo took. It was done for a reason. If you don’t win, you get replaced. This idea of patience is nice in theory, but very rarerly excercised in the NFL.

    Frank..I’d like you to take note that I didn’t argue here.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Lidman, while it is common for pro sports teams, not limited to the NFL, to change coaches like underwear, I’m not convinced that is how the Jets operate, for example Schotty’s reign of ineptitude. In addition, the 1st 8-8 season & the 6-10 season were likely deemed to be Tanny’s “fault” as he recieved his pink slip & Rex did not.

    As a rare long time Yankees/Jets fan, I most certainly am aware of how it is short-sighted & not beneficial to change coaches in a Steinbrenner-esque manner, & hope Woody seeks to emulate franchises like the Steelers that are stable &, as KAsh stated, “build a franchise that is in the discussion for a Super Bowl every year.”

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    I think Woody has learned a bit, from his stadium mates. I think it’s a reasonable assumption to say most teams would have jettisoned Rex after 2012, let alone another non-playoff year 2013. To your point, Woody has also given his GMs some time, as Bradway and Tanny had long runs..heck Bradway is still there. The last statement, in my mind, is totally dependent on QB play. I will again refer to Polian and Belechick as ‘draft geniuses’.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Well, “most teams” would’ve been wrong to fire Rex whether it was after 2012 or 2013, just as the Giants would have been wrong to fire Coughlin after 2006, like many Giants fans wanted. Perhaps THAT is what Woody learned from his stadium mates…

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    I would agree.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Wow Lidman agrees with JJ. I guess he’s letting his alter ego out a little. You still refuse to face facts and see that elite QBs don’t guarantee anything. Idzik is building this team the correct way. He has a profile for the type of Jet player he wants on his team. Having a strong team spirit built on team first players is always a recipe for success. No longer will we bring in me first players and if anyone turns into that they won’t last long on this team. This article shows it’s working. I’m sure the negative posters will dismiss this out of hand as they do to anything positive about the Jets:

    By Dom Cosentino/NJ.com

    With all the new free agents and draft picks the Jets added this offseason, Willie Colon can sense that things in the locker room out in Florham Park aren’t quite the same as they were last year.

    “It’s a real humble environment,” Colon said Tuesday night at the 21st annual United Way Gridiron Gala at the Waldorf-Astoria. “Just the locker room’s a way different locker from what I saw last year. Guess are mingling, hanging with each other, and I think we’re forming something good.”

    Colon had joined the Jets last spring after seven seasons with the Steelers. And those 2013 Jets were a team in transition: a new general manager, several new, young players thrust into starting roles, and eventually a starting rookie quarterback in Geno Smith. They then went out and finished 8-8, something few observers actually thought was possible.

    It’s way early in 2014, of course. The Jets are less than a month into their offseason program, and the rookies and undrafted free agents only reported to One Jets Drive for duty for the first time earlier Tuesday.

    The Jets this offseason added several need-filling free agents in quarterback Mike Vick, wideout Eric Decker, and running back Chris Johnson. They also just added 12 draft picks over the weekend, including safety Calvin Pryor and tight end Jace Amaro.

    But was Colon suggesting there was no such mingling or camaraderie a year ago?

    “Honestly, when I walked in here last year, it was different—it was different than what I was used to,” he said, no doubt referring to his time in Pittsburgh, where he won a Super Bowl ring and was on injured reserve during a season in which the Steelers got back to the Super Bowl.

    “But right now, guys are always around each other, it seems like more of a family environment.”

    And then, in the next breath, Colon said this:

    “I wasn’t here when they made the AFC championship run [in 2009 and 2010], but a lot of guys are talking that it starts to feel like that again, so that’s a step in the right direction.”

    “A lot of guys”? There aren’t many of those guys left at this point.

    “Well,” Colon added, “I’ve only talked to Nick [center Nick Mangold] and Brick [left tackle D’Brickashaw Ferguson about it.”

    Colon clearly wasn’t saying this Jets team will reach the AFC title game just because the room feels pretty chummy when players are changing their clothes. But he was adamant that something had changed for the better, even if it won’t be clear for months whether that translates into wins on the football field.

    Outside linebacker Quinton Coples agreed.

    “I think that guys have a different vibe and a different feeling going into this season,” Coples said. “Expectations are high, but we got a lot more firepower, we had a lot of additions in free agency, we had the 12 picks in the draft, there’s a lot of things going great for us. There’s a lot of momentum going into camp.”

  • http://gravatar.com/theelidman Lidman

    Frank, if that’s the case why has Tom Brady been to 6 Superbowls, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger and Kurt Warner to 3, Eli Manning to 2 and Brees and Rogers to one each. So, when you do the quick math, in the last 15 years, there have been 30 QBs to make Superbowls, and these guys make up 19 of those..add that Rich Gannon was the MVP of the league the year he went, Donovan McNabb was a top 5 QB when he went (he did play in 4 straight NFL title games), and Russell Wilson has had as good a 1st 2 years as almost any QB. So, I’ll use your ‘history tells us’ that if you want to win, and get to a Superbowl having a top level QB great increases the probability of that happening…you can not argue that, because the facts are there to prove it.

    You still haven’t answered the Bill Polian question. Without Peyton Manning, knowing his draft results, exactly how long do you think he’d have kept that job?