No Huddle – New York Eagles Edition?

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TJ Rosenthal kicks off another week of New York Jets coverage at Turn On The Jets with his weekly No Huddle - Make sure to give TJ a follow on Twitter on Turn On The Jets a follow on Facebook.


Ladies And Gentleman, Introducing Michael Vick

Tim Tebow, Mark Sanchez. Geno Smith, and Michael Vick. The past three seasons have provided one polarizing Jets quarterback after another. Tebow, for the maniacal fanfare and minimal throwing ability that followed him wherever he went. Sanchez, for the way you either loved him or hated him as a quarterback and leader as time went on. Especially after the Buttfumble. Smith, for the Jets drafting then starting him just a year before a richer quarterback class was turning pro. Now it’s Vick, and the spotlight that is poised to once again shine on his dogfighting past.

PETA has already chimed in. Marcus Vick, Michael’s outspoken brother as well. Jet fans on Twitter reside on both sides of the argument and neither school of thought lacks the passion. We have to try and stop acting like the Tea Partiers and the Occupy Wall Street though folks and rather, accept both those who can forgive and those who can’t. Even the ones who are saying they will out and out walk away as Jet fans.

There is no right or wrong as far as how one wants to see Vick now.  The only unquestionable wrong was the criminal action itself. Whatever Vick’s role was in the operation, it doesn’t matter. He shouldn’t have been taking part. Nobody should be doing that to dogs or any other animal for that matter. Which should bring up the point as to why it’s fair to condemn Vick while eating burgers, dogs, ribs and chicken at the tailgate party but anyway..

Vick served his time and since the arrest and conviction several years ago, seems to have changed his life and outlook on animal rights. However there will always be those for whom no amount of apologies by Vick will be enough. That is reality. So expect protest signs in Florham Park, like it or not.

As for the strategy of obtaining Vick, how many better options were out there in terms of getting an affordable quality veteran QB? With experience in the current OC’s system no less.

As a player, durability will always be a factor for Vick. If he can stay healthy, even at 34 Mike Vick can still be a playmaker. He will have to cut down on the unnecessary risk taking. Through the air and with his legs. Which for a guy who thrives on making plays instinctively, will be easier to achieve on a practice field than it will facing live bullets. I don’t believe that Vick is here primarily to push Geno. Whoever runs the offense better this summer will start.

Smith gained experience as a player after a full season at the helm but whether that translates into immediate next level production is anyone’s guess. Should Smith wind up the starter when training camp comes to a close, I doubt the Jets will allow him to struggle while the team loses game after game in the name of growth. Not with Vick holding the clipboard next to Rex. Then there is also the question of what affect losing the job may have on Geno’s emotional state going forward. Assuming the Jets even care about Geno’s long term emotional state.

Only the Jets could somehow sign a Michael Vick to compete with an underwhelming second year quarterback yet double its own question marks at the position. It will soon be up to Ryan and the coaching staff to sort this quarterback stuff out. For a second year in a row.

Sanchez

Embattled QB Mark Sanchez as we all know was released the day of the Vick signing. His exit took place one week after a host of teams grabbed their new veteran backups and starters. The Jets could have been nice and released him earlier. Oh well, sorry Sanchize.

The former USC product was drafted in the top ten in 2009 but landed on the doorstep of Florham in loose handcuffs. Where he was given the wiggle room to start but told to manage games, or to simply not screw them up. As a rookie for a playoff ready veteran team, his early development as a player was stunted in the name of sensible conservatism. Sanchez’s ability to win playoff road games by completing minimal but at times key throws, gave the club confidence that year three was the right time to raise the bar for him.

By 2011 he was asked to open it up, but for many reasons Sanchez was unable to succeed with the change of direction. Tim Tebow’s arrival in 2012 and subsequent summer long shadow didn’t help Sanchez regain any confidence lost in 2011. The Sanchize was then treated like a scrub, getting injured in the second half of a preseason game that ended his season in 2013. Alright well it WAS the must win Snoopy Bowl.

Sanchez had three different offensive coordinators in five years but was lucky enough to be handed the job right out of the gates. With no risk of losing the gig to those who stood in line behind him for the first three.

Sanchez is as responsible for the crime of playing himself out of a job as the Jets are for making a solid foundation tough for him, but he can be reprogrammed and find success elsewhere. St Louis, where both his former playcaller Brian Schottenheimer and the oft injured Sam Bradford behind center reside, could be the perfect fit.

The guy is only 27 but it starts between the shoulder pads. Sanchez has to believe in himself again the way he did during those first two January playoff runs. When as a kid, he knocked out Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in January. Something that how many quarterbacks starting in the NFL today can say then have done?

The fans who comprise the dwindling yet loyal Sanchez Cult may still believe he was the better option going forward than Vick. However it would be hard even for them to deny the fact that many at Jet Life stadium were still prepared to make it hell on him if he stayed. He deserves a clean slate and a fresh start. He’s a good guy. I am rooting for him.

What Is Going On In Philly With DeSean?

I can’t figure out for the life of me why the Eagles may be willing to release big time weapon DeSean Jackson. He’s being bantered about like he is Chaz Schilens or something. He’s a very pricey piece but is he not one of the league’s top offensive threats? Philly can’t get him to restructure? Maybe the gang sign he gave in an Instagram photo days ago is the tip of a dangerous iceberg the public doesn’t know about yet. I can’t figure out.

If on paper Michael Vick gives the Jets another option then adding Jackson would push the club towards immediate relevance even further. If you are the Jets and want Jackson, then don’t wait. Be willing to pay a little more and trade for him now.

The price for Jackson through a trade will be higher than it will be should he get released, but the competition for his services from teams with less cap space will increase after he is let go as well. If you are the Jets and your research tells you that D Jax is not a locker room malcontent or criminal in waiting, then don’t wish you made a trade next week over two to three million dollars. Not for a 27 year old star in his prime who is young enough to help the cause both now and later.

Quick Hits

- Remember those who begged for Greg McElroy to be the teams QB of the future, after he leap frogged the supposedly injured Tim Tebow for the number two job? Oh the beloved 2012 circus.

McElroy retired last week at age 26. I will always fondly recall the day when he replaced a struggling Sanchez to the sheer delight of the home crowd. Then saved the pathetic Tony Sparano challenged Jets offense from itself. Leading Gang Green to a super ugly 7-6 win over the lowly Cardinals. All thanks to one modest touchdown drive. Which at the time felt impressive considering back then, the Jets offense made a hundred yards feel like the entire length of the New Jersey Turnpike.

McElroy will also be remembered sharing his vantage point in the combustible locker room of 2011. A year capped by the Santonio drama in Miami on the seasons final day. After the season’s disappointing 9-7 finish, Mac told 97.3 The Zone in Alabama “there were people within our locker room that didn’t care whether we won or lost as long as they got theirs, they had a good game individually. And that’s the disappointing thing.”  I was actually surprised the Jets kept him after that, but those were the days when airing out dirty laundry in public and the open door policy was applauded if not encouraged. Speaking of which..

- On Sunday Woody Johnson said “we have a lot of confidence in Geno.” Days after Rex Ryan told ESPN radio that a Sanchez return is still a possibility while Vick was in Florham Park pen in hand practically signing his deal. I’m beginning to think that nowadays anything a Jet coach or suit says might be the exact opposite of the truth. Which I’m ok with. Remain silent, or say what you need to Woody, as long the club is moving in the right direction and not penalized with any loss of draft picks. Which takes us to..

- Woody’s public proclamation regarding interest that the Jets have in Jackson is tampering, is it not? It’s best for Gang Green to stay quiet about D Jax if for any other reason, to keep the team out of trouble. Besides, talk alone is not enough to prove to fans that the Jets want to “win now.” Despite staying out of the veteran cornerback market.

  • Lidman

    ***Hater Alert***

    Just in case you don’t want to read.

    Can someone explain to me how Michael Vick represents a serious upgrade to the NYJ offense? I’m not comparing him to Sanchez or any other QB. I asking how he alone makes this team better. To begin, there is no way you can count on this guy being able to stay healthy.

    -In his last 29 starts (over past 3 seasons), he’s 12-17, throwing 35 TDs v 27 INTs and he’s had 25 fumbles.

    -He’s 2-4, in 6 career playoff games and the last playoff win he had was 1/2005.

    -I get that he had his ‘best year’ under MM, but he also went 10-13, with under 60% completions the last 2 years they were together.

    -This guy is a video game QB. He’s had some success, but that player is long gone; recent history illustrates this. If this guy is ‘serious competition’ for Geno, then we have a problem.

    Sorry, I don’t see how this is a good football move.

  • evan

    lets say the jets trade for D Jax. what is your opinion on a fair restructured deal that would both placate him and not kill the cap to avoid a repeat of the santonio holmes situation?

  • Joe Caporoso

    He is a better QB than Mark Sanchez and Matt Simms by a substantial margin (http://bit.ly/1kQY1YI) , so the Jets upgraded their QB2 spot, hence improving their team. He had a better year in 2010 under MM than any Jets quarterback has had since 1998.

  • Joe Caporoso

    And I’d be curious to hear you try to name one QB available this offseason who would have been better to push Geno? Vick was best available.

  • KAsh

    @Lidman

    No, Vick is not the signing that will change the fate of this franchise. But he is “serious competition” simply because a JUGS machine would offer serious competition for Geno after last year. Need I remind you that Geno threw 12 TDs to 21 interceptions over a sixteen game period? If you extrapolate those numbers over a 29 game period, Geno would have thrown 22 TDs and 38 INTs. We do have a problem.

  • The Jet Report

    If you don’t like Vick, then of course the move is not an upgrade. He makes mistakes and gets injured but his ability in the past to also make plays throwing and running wise can’t just be discarded, Especially after watching three seasons of minimal playmaking at the position at best.

    As for D Jax, a restructure once he is here would help for sure but the bigger Q is will it hold a trade up on the Jets end because he won’t.

  • The jet report

    Jugs Machine. Kash that was funny lol

  • KAsh

    Woody is (probably) in no danger of tampering. The Eagles would have to file a complaint with the league. They are not going to for several reasons:

    A) they are shopping Jackson and do not want to lose the leverage by haviing a frontrunner pull out of the race because they got him in trouble for speaking publically about what they were agreeing on behind closed doors.
    B) the Jets and the Eagles are mirror images of each other – one is an AFC team with a good defense and the other is a NFC team with a good offense – so they make extremely good trade partners for the foreseeable future. Again, accusing one side of tampering ruins the relationship.
    C) the two organizations are close, both figuratively and literally. They live a couple hours from each other, but are not rivals, and play against each other in the final preseason game. Why complicate the bonds?

    The only way we get hit with tampering is if the Eagles do not want to move Jackson and are stupid. Short of that, we are in the clear.

  • joeydefiant

    Nothing Woody said is tampering he said hes a very good player and we have interest in lots of good players (paraphrasing). Thats not tampering. Relax people.
    Vick is a better QB than anyone else available and anyone else on the jets roster besides arguably geno smith. Thats how he is an upgrade. Its simple.
    Geno would still be a top 3 QB if he came out of college this year dont see the point in saaying the jets took him a year before a deep QB draft.
    Some reaally good QBs did worse their rookie years and have gone on to be really good Qbs. I dont see Vick starting week 1 unless Geno is injured. If he struggles for a few weeks in a row then perhaps but hopefully they work to his strengths and let him air it out early and often.

  • Lidman

    Joe,

    I guess I simply don’t buy in to this idea that Geno needs to be pushed. Who was pushing Russell Wilson this year? You want me to take it down a notch, fine? Who was pushing Ryan Tannehil1? I just don’t believe the difference between a guy making it, and not making it is having a back up who is pushing him. Give me some examples of guys who, if it weren’t for their back up pushing them, wouldn’t have made it. Manning, Brady, Big Ben, Eli, Brees..all SB winning QBs, all different modicums of success in years 1 and 2, tell me the stud back up who was pushing them? If Geno isn’t good enough to be a starting NFL QB, then get another one. I don’t think bringing in a washed up Michael Vick is the answer. I wouldn’t have kept Sanchez, I do think that had to happen, but I don’t have this huge comfort that the NYJ are going to be ‘ok’, if Geno stumbles, because they brought in Michael Vick. He’s done nothing for 3 years now, he’ll be 34 and he still makes the same mistakes he always has.

    Kash,
    No doubt Geno had bad overall numbers, but when I look at the last 4 games:
    4 TDs/3 INTs, 59% comp %, 186 rushing yards, 3 rushing TDs, 0 Fumbles and 3-1 record I don’t think there are many ‘JUGS’ machines that would beat him out. You can cite who they played all you want, you can’t deny he played well for that stretch of games. Was he perfect? No. But, I think fans should be encouraged..I was.

  • Lidman

    Joe,

    I’d rather have seen the NYJ go after Terrelle Pryor, who was similar to Geno, but made big strides early last season. If nothing else, he’s another young player, who could have a future. I don’t see the NYJ being successful if wind up in a situation where they are counting on M Vick.

  • Joe Caporoso

    Terrelle Pryor made big strides towards the end of last season? You might want to re-check the game logs of the past 5-6 games he played in last season.

  • John X

    Lidman,

    I’m with you here as well as I don’t really believe a backup pushing the starter is a very good idea. Disastrous results can occur.

    We’ll see where the Jets stand on this. It could be that they initially cooled on Vick as he was looking to start as FA began. Just a guess.

  • Lidman

    Joe..reread my post, I said ‘early last season’. He did fall off after he hurt his knee. My only point is I’d rather go young, with someone who is developing. Michael Vick, at his peak, was overrated. Michael Vick, seeing his comp % drop for 4 straight years, in an offense set up for QB success, with solid NFL weapons better not be brought here than to be anything other than a clipboard holder. Is he capable of winning a game, or two? Sure, I’d say the answer is yes. However, anything more than that is unrealistic. I mean 17 guys this year, threw for more yards than Michael Vick did in his best year. Sanchez, in 2011 threw for more yards than Vick ever has, and his 32 total TDs (26 passing/6 rushing) were more than Vick ever accounted for, and he didn’t have Desean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Jason Avant and Shady McCoy on his team. Sorry, I just don’t see Michael Vick as someone who is anything more than a mediocre guy, who has some staggering highlight reel plays.

  • The Jet Report

    Jets had no interest in developing another guy like Pryor. They wanted a vet who even past his prime, has made plays and like him or not, poses a threat in some way. Pryor may develop but so might Sanchez and host of other 26-28 year old guys. They wanted a guy over thirty short term w mileage. Whether that’s the way to go or not may be debatable but getting an aged vet w experience was their only view of QB2.

  • Dan in RI

    The people who think that it is a foregone conclusion that Vick wins the starting job from Smith are clearly thinking of the QB who led the Eagles to the playoffs in his first year there, rather than the guy who went 2-4 with the Eagles last year, only to lose his job to the guy he beat out in pre-season. Foles then showed just how potent the Eagles offense could be, taking the Eagles all the way to the playoffs.

    Or maybe they are convinced that the real Geno Smith is the guy who went 0-3 after the bye week last year, playing like a stooge, and dooming the Jets meager playoff hopes. Yep, that’s the real Geno Smith–not the guy who went 3-1 in his last four games, and gave the fan base reason to hope.

    Of course, we won’t know for sure until the preseason is well under way, but I think we are going to see a much-improved Geno Smith, now that he knows Marty Morninwheg’s system, and has 16 starts under his belt. I think he will beat out Vick in camp, and will show real progress from last year.

  • Frank Antonelli

    No comments about the Jets getting 4 compensatory draft picks???? A 4th and 3 6th round picks for a total of 12 draft picks. Idzik obviously knew what he was doing last year. Of the last 10 Super Bowl winners almost all of them had MANY compensatory picks. The year Baltimore won it they had the most. Green Bay had the 3rd most the year they won it, etc. Oh yea I forgot Idzik lost the off season in the first 8 days! The constant negative diatribe is getting old. Hopefully Idzik will get the last laugh!

  • Joe Caporoso

    “Is he capable of winning a game, or two? Sure, I’d say the answer is yes”

    That is literally all he needs to be. And he was way more likely to do that than Sanchez, hence I like the move.

    I have consistently said I still see Geno starting and being the guy this year.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Let Tony Dungy provide the negative contingent with some education:

    Tony Dungy knows John Idzik better than most and he is quite familiar with the Jets GM’s philosophy on player acquisition.

    “John is approaching it very much like we did in Tampa,” Dungy told me today. “You’re not using free agency to build your team. You’re using it to fill in. You want to build for the long haul and take in the short run just little steps that are going to help you. I think John has a great plan I’m looking forward to seeing it unfold with the Jets. I hope people don’t become impatient because I really do believe building through the draft in the long run is the way to go.”

    They were teammates with the Buccaneers as TD served as the head coach for the Pewter Pirates from 1996-2001 while the latter was the Buccos director of football administration. Some members of the Jets fanbase have grown weary of the team’s perceived lack of spending because OvertheCap.com reports that the Jets are currently a league-high $32 million under the NFL’s mandated salary cap.

    “We always liked to leave ourselves a little bit under the cap when I was at Indianapolis and at Tampa. You anticipate drafting well, developing great players and then you want to be able to re-sign them,” Dungy said. “You want to be able to keep the guys you have and that is kind of the long range plan. I can kind of see what is unfolding for the Jets. The fans are just going to have to be patient, but I really believe in John Idzik.”

  • Joe Caporoso

    12 picks a beautiful thing, Frank. No doubt. IMMENSE flexibility and opportunity this May for the Jets

  • Frank Antonelli

    Joe. Thanks for working hard on the site. It’s a beautiful thing when you can visit a site whose leader is positive and fair. Some of the other sites may as well be labelled I hate the Jets. Keep up the great work.

  • The dude abides

    Theres pushing and then theres developing. Id rather the latter considering we did invest a 2nd round here , and also the position. That being said i don’t think Geno is the answer at all. And i still to this day hated drafting him. Getting back to the debate though, Vick was a good qb but not any more. He’s apparently made out of glass , so he beats geno out and we get what 3-4.5 games out of him before he gets hurt? And now we are back to geno. Personally I hate him and think this was an awful signing. The jets sold their souls for so little. As far as mentoring Geno i don’t think he will be much help there either expect to teach Geno how to ride the bench.

    My hope is that the jets build the Oline up some more and pick up a running back in FA ( why aren’t we talking about that?) and stick to a dominate run game with the occasional Play action pass. Ala a game manager. Don’t need vick for that and geno is suited for such. Figure out the QB situation next year.

    On a personal note , I’m struggling to root for the jets this year due to Vick. I love the jets but i can’t agree with them backing him. Very conflicted.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Still no excitment about having 12 draft picks this year!!!! Reminds me of a joke:

    What’s the difference between a Jets fan and a battery????

    A battery has a positive side

  • John X

    This is awesome!

    So this is part of John’s grand scheme for the future success of the Jets and their march towards the Super Bowl – three bottom 6th rounders. Can’t wait.

    Major flexibility with all those picks that can’t be traded. Can’t wait.

    We might get a few more Josh Bush type players to add to the mediocre roster. Can’t wait.

    Let’s all do cartwheels because this is a great day. Remember, Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round and we have FOUR 6th rounders when you include our own. WOW!!!!!

    Keep those happy faces on everyone or Frank and Joe are gonna ream you good. This is a great, great day. I’ve got a big smile on my face, I promise you.

    Can’t wait!

  • John X

    Dan, Lidman,

    Your points are well taken as Vick could not beat out Foles who was coming off a struggling rookie season. To think that he’s going to waltz in here and start over Geno is probably placing too much stock in his past abilities. Vick is not 28.
    Moreover, I personally don’t think he was brought in to even compete as he was declaring early in preseason that he wanted to start. No such words now as weeks later he came crawling back to the Jets.
    I think he’s strictly a backup here. But we’ll see.

  • Joe Caporoso

    JX

    1 – NYJ have 3 4th rounders, 2 of which are eligible to traded. Last year a 4th equaled Ivory. A few years ago a 5th rounder equaled Kerley. 2 years ago a 7th rounder equaled Allen.

    3 – The Jets are eligible to trade 8 of their 12 picks.

    3 – You continue to ignore how the overwhelming majority of NFL rosters are built with players in the 3rd-7th round. Random example, Seattle acquired Wilson, Lynch, Baldwin, Sherman, Chancellor, Browner, Thurmond, Bryant with a 3rd to 7th rounder.

    4 – Said it before, if you are 100% sure Idzik is a flop and the roster is set in stone 5 months before week 1, you have plenty of time to root for Oakland who KILLED it in free agency. Big money spends on big flashy names. They should be awesome this year and have tons of sustainable success.

  • Joe Caporoso

    …And Vick did beat out Foles in the summer and started week 1. He lost his job after getting hurt and Foles lit it up in relief.

    However, I do still think Geno is the guy and will start week 1 for the Jets.

  • Bynie

    @the dude abides

    I understand the hate for Vick but he did his time and according to quite a few important people (Philadelphia owner, Sal Pal, ROGER GOODELL) they gave him ringing endorsements since he did his time. The commissioner of the league fully backed Michael Vick. If you are not going to watch the Jets because of him than you shouldn’t watch NFL since they endorse him.

    I agree with Lidman. I never understood the ‘he HAS to be pushed’ mantra. He is a starting QB in the NFL. He should have all the motivation in the world. If he needs to be pushed then we have the wrong quarterback. I still believe in Geno until he proves otherwise. John Idzik is going to surround him with more weapons in 2014 then Mark Sanchez ever had in his 4 years starting here. If the Jets can build an even subpar (15th) offense, that will take SIGNIFICANT pressure off of the defense. The defense wont have to be number 5 in the league just to net 7-9 wins. It is not 2001. You win by throwing the ball and scoring points. You can say all you want about the Seahawks defense but they still put up over 26 points per game. Have MM groom Geno, surround him with weapons in the passing game, protect him and then it will be fair to judge him on what kind of QB he is.

  • Bynie

    @ John X

    That read like Steve Serby article. Ive never seen someone so upset at a team being given 4 extra draft picks. If they hit on even ONE of those 6th round comp picks I think it will be considered successful. Its been 14 days into free agency, training camp doesn’t even begin for another 4 months lol chill out.

  • Lidman

    I don’t know where the idea of not like draft picks came to the forefront. I think those extra picks are great. That said, the NYJ had no cap room last year, so many of those decisions (to let guys walk) were no brainers.

    My contention with Vick is the NYJ are paying him $5mm, yet they wouldn’t move on a CB, or OLB, which I think are bigger needs for the team. It’s an opinion, that’s all. Joe, the comment about “Oakland killing it”, in FA is so off base, because they still have more cap room than any other team and just about everyone of their signings involved a ‘roster bonus’, not a ‘signing bonus’, so they still have incredible roster flexibility. I think Idzik could have also employed that strategy, but didnt’.

    It’s natural for everyone to argue their opinion. However, you also need to be able to see the other side of an argument. Based on last year’s draft, are we confident in this team’s, because it’s not just Idzik, ability to find late round talent? What do we have in Aboushi and Campbell? We really don’t know yet. Is Bohanon (again, he is Idzik’s Scotty McKnight..he was picked because he was Idzik’s son’s very good friend, at Wake Forest) going to develop into an NFL player? Joe, another thing, you keep referring to the Ivory trade like it was some tremendous move. Ivory was good, no doubt, but it’s not as though he came here and won game on his own. Solid football move, but I think you’re overselling it a bit.

    Frank A, you talk about Tony Dungy’s comments, and I would answer, the team doesn’t have ‘some’ cap space left, they have over 20% of it left. Based on where guys signed, the CB position is a $6.5mm to $12mm, and the NYJ came away with nobody. Maybe time will prove him to be right, but I think the odds are against him there. Now, this whole Desean Jackson idea. He’s a diva, who constantly complains about his contract and talk is the NYJ are interested? Sorry, I don’t see how that fits with ‘the philosophy’. I also read any trade, for DJax, would be contingent on him restructuring his contract…for less money. I don’t know how true or untrue that is, but I do know it’s unrealstic.

    John/Frank…I appreciate the viewpoints and how you believe the approach is sound and needs follow through. I’m just saying, it’s ok, to look at the other side, that’s all. Let’s be honest here, we’re all struggling NYJ fans, and if the team wins a Super Bowl, during the Idzik reign, will any of us care how it’s accomplished?

    BTW, if Oakland releases Pryor, I’d think he’d be a perfect project for Chip Kelly, but looks like Sanchez is going to land there. I like Pryor’s upside, and was impressed with the progress he showed early in the season. I thought it illustrated a commitment to getting better. Hopefully Geno shows that this year.

  • Lidman

    Bynie,

    Yes, it’s only 2 weeks into FA, but the large majority of impact players are off the board. Sure, there can be trades (not common place in the NFL) as well as later roster cuts, but history suggests anyone cut, for financial reasons, between now and the start of the season, will be as much about a slip in performance. I mean, who are some of the guys you, or anyone who posts here, could conceivably see being cut, that the NYJ could come in and scoop up. Again, remember, a number of teams are still under the cap, so it’s not as though the NYJ are the only team that can make a play for these guys.

  • Zeb

    Lidman,

    You make valid points. I would tend to agree that Idzik was a bit too conservative the past 2 weeks, but time will tell. This site has a lot of spirited debate on it. Let’s hope the NYJ are just as enthusiastic as their fans are.

    Joe and Frank,

    You both seem to be the most ardent supporters of the Idzik plan. With the amount of cap space the team has left, and knowing how hold over cap space must eventually be used, by the 2016 season, where do you see Idzik using that money? I mean even if resigns his own players, eligible for a contract extension-Wilkerson and Kyle Wilson come to mind, he’s still going to have a lot of room, with more coming next year. I’d love to hear your opinion of where he should put those resources.

  • John X

    Bynie,

    I don’t hate the team but I’m not doing cartwheels and jumping jacks for the likelihood of attaining a bunch of Josh Bush-caliber players at the end of the 6th round. We’ll take them but I’m not anointing Idzik as GM of the year just yet.
    Can I say that without being labeled a hater? Probably not here.

  • Bynie

    @ Lidman

    I just don’t think Idzik has 2014 as a Super Bowl mindset per se. He is building a team. I can understand Denver and New England backing up the money truck because they have a very small window left. I dont think Verner or DRC was the difference between a super bowl or not this year. Would they have made the Jets better? Of course. I think Idzik is using Free Agency to give him maximum flexibility come May. If he gets Jackson, then he can easily wait until the third round to draft a WR. That gives him 2 early round picks to draft a top flight CB or even OLB. They have Milliner, if they grab another top end CB in the draft, and also sign or trade for a C+ CB, i think that gives them great flexibility over the next 2-3 years, talent and cap wise. Ive come to the realization that this is not a 2014 team. This is a 2015 and beyond team. Jets didnt get to this state in one year and they wont get great in one year.

    @ John X

    I don’t think you are a hater at all, i just think you are impatient and have unrealistic expectation of John Idzik 2 weeks into free agency. I wouldn’t put out a grade on Idzik until at least August 2015. Thats just my opinion.

  • Lidman

    Bynie,

    Has Idzik checked in with his boss?

    “I’m not going to use the word ‘patient’ anymore,” Johnson told reporters. “We want to do it now.”

    This notion of not trying to win this year seem illogical to me. If Idzik truly believes that, why would he put his HC in the position to have to win next year, by only giving him what really amounts to a 1yr extension? You’d think if he’s trying to build a real winner, that continuity would be desired, no? If the mantra of the organization is ‘competition at every position’, than doesn’t that apply to the front office too? If you’re Woody Johnson and your HC just went out and went 8-8, with a team most had as a bottom 5 team, has a ton of cap room and 12 draft picks, shouldn’t you expect the front office to improve the team, this year? Would anyone have predicted the NYJ would have gotten to 2 AFC title games in ’09/’10? Did anyone see the Ravens or Giants as Super Bowl winners up until, you know they won? So, if the team were to go 8-8 next year, not unimaginable with their schedule, then does the plan move out another year? NFL: Not For Long. If the NYJ don’t make the playoffs next year, Rex likely loses his job and Idzik will be squarely on the clock.

  • John X

    This patience stuff is for the birds. The proper term here is “missed out”.
    The Jets have not been patient. They actively pursued a number of the top free agents but they just couldn’t sign them.

    This isn’t about patience.
    And certainly my not being excited about 6th round comp picks has nothing to do with patience either. Your term is mis-used.

    As for my expectations, that’s fair. You can have your own but mine were set higher (with the nearly 40M of cap space) than what the results are to date. And I believe Idzik had higher hopes as well – after all, he contacted several that he couldn’t sign.

    At the very least, he should’ve had a backup plan at CB. To have signed Browner or Thurmond for low one-year deals they were seeking (and got) could’ve given us a competent CB opposite Milliner and a seafty net for his low-ball offers bombing. This bugs me quite a bit. Who will they get now?
    Carlos Rogers could be a stop-gap measure but there have been zero links with him or any other CB’s. The best have been signed. What are we waiting for now? For the second-tier CB’s prices to drop to save a few bucks? I really hope not. Maybe he’s angling in on some trade we’re not aware of or simply going to address the other starting CB in the draft (which is a huge mistake).

  • John X

    Lidman,
    Great point as I mentioned this the other day. I personally think Woody’s words were a veiled shot at Idzik to get off his ass and improve the quality of talent on this team. Make an effort to get Jackson, and stop playing games with MJD (if you really want him) and get him here as well. Address the needs, pay market value, get your guys and move on and prepare for the draft.
    And while you’re at it, fly Jermichael Finley out here and see what he’s got. You know you could use him, John.

  • John X

    Bynie,

    I couldn’t disagree any sharper with you on this notion of non-urgency due to your expectations of the team in 2014. IAs a GM, if you don’t aggressively pursue the improvement of this team with the cap space and draft picks, you need to be replaced immediately. 8-8 teams don’t throw the next season out the window in hopes of improving ever so slightly and taking baby steps.

  • Frank Antonelli

    John X. Why don’t you go and follow some other team you obviously don’t have any faith in this one. You’re constant negative diatribe is getting old. You must be one miserable person to be around.

  • Bynie

    @ John X

    I dont think aggression is what you are going to get with Idzik. I agree with you about some kind of plan with the CB position. Would i have liked him to sign one of the available CB’s that were available? Absolutely. I wouldnt have given DRC 14 million dollars. However i just i am not ready to be upset with Idzik until his plan starts to gain some traction. I think by August this team will be greatly improved. The WR corps is already improved. The CB spot will obviously be improved simply by the addition of a any corner back they get since they have none. I would like to see them trade or sign an experienced starter and add one in the draft. If their offense is putting up 5-7 more points a game they can afford a slight decrease in production from their defense. To use Brian Cashman as an example, the yankees won around 84 games last year. He said in the offseason that based off statistics he had them at around a 75 win team. He didnt see them as good as their record indicated. I see the same thing with the Jets. I think they over performed last year. The fact that their offense even got them to 8 wins is ridiculous, This team has a lot more hole than an 8 win team should have.

    @ Lidman

    I have no rebuttal to the woody comment. :( Every move Idzik has made, all his quotes (“sustained success”) has indicated to me that he is building a team that can compete for years at a time. Then Woody fires that quote off, couple that with the ‘one year’ extension with rex and the debits dont equal the credits. Maybe he is trying to keep his fan base excited for the coming year. i dont know. It does make little sense. However i do think they are already a better team this year than they were last year and they can only improve over the next 5 months. Trades, FA pickups and the draft are all great avenues that idzik will walk through. They have 12 picks, if they hit on half? a third? thats 4-5 players that will improve this team going forward.

  • Bynie

    Maybe my Jets colored glasses are too green for you guys. I try to find the medium between fan and critic. It’s just unfair to hang Idzik after 2 weeks.

  • Frank Antonelli

    John X. Almost 100 percent of the things you write are negative. You are obviously unhappy and following the Jets seems to be torture for you. Why would you follow them if they provide you such pain. Do you have sadomasochistic tendencies? You must otherwise why would you subject yourself to this self-inflicted pain?!

  • tycobb1981

    John X,

    It’s exceptionally unrealistic to review Idzik’s offseason in March when the roster will change considerably between now and August.

    Were there players available that some of us had high hopes of signing? Absolutely.

    However, we don’t know the rationale of the front office and the values they assigned to available players that they may or may not have had an interest in.

    Also, deciphering Woody’s intent with his dropping the word “patience” is asinine. He could have been sending a public signal to Idzik, or he could have been sending a public signal to Geno in conjunction with the signing of Vick that he must improve or be benched.

    This is all guesswork, because none of us actually know what’s going on behind closed doors. Maybe some of us got too accustomed to the leaks during T-baum’s years…

    Regardless, the roster today and the roster on opening week are likely to be very different. Remember, at this time last year, the following players weren’t signed by the Jets yet: Cumberland (RFA), Howard (RFA), Trufant, Walls, Milliner, Richardson, Smith, Winters, Bohanon, Landry, Pace, Ivory, Douzable, Cribbs, Reed, Nelson, and a few others that contributed in a positive way during the season last year…

    Most of those guys were signed in April; so at the very least, be patient for the next month… let things play out until the end of the Draft. A LOT can happen between then and now.

    What if Idzik trades Kenrick Ellis and a 4th Rd pick for a starting CB? Would that completely change your evaluations?

    There is a lot of time and lots of moves left to happen before it’s worth getting worried, angry, or upset at the offseason moves. Those being impatient seem to pine for the days of T-baum’s overspending that, while it gave us two years of excitement, is directly responsible for the last 3 years of failure.

  • tycobb1981

    Frank,

    To be fair, most Jet fans suffer from sadomasochistic tendencies… kind of comes with the territory.

  • Lidman

    TC1981…I’m not trying to decipher any intent. I simply showed a quote, from the owner, who suggested he’s looking to win now.

    Also, go back and look at your list of players you say ‘weren’t on the team at this time last year’. You say they all made ‘positive’ contributions, ok. But, other than Richardson, did any of them make a significant difference in the team’s performance? Now, they do have a bunch of picks, and maybe there is some credence to a DJax trade (which whether you like it, or don’t, you can’t deny it upgrades the talent level), so I’m hopeful. However, from the pro personnel side, I think it’s naive to think they’ll get a major impact, this season, from any FA they sign (excluding an unexpected roster cut) now.

    Frank,

    Not that I need to defend JX, but I think you can categorize him as negative, when it comes to Idzik’s handling of the FA period, the same way I think you can be categorized as wearing Jet green glasses. I mean you think everything Idzik has done is great, and that’s your opinion. He has his, that’s all.

  • John X

    Well I hope everyone is happy to see DeSean Jackson having a change of heart and will be playing in Philly after all next season. Sorry, Woody. We needed to maintain that wait-and-see approach and cross our fingers to hope that something good will come our way instead of taking the initiative and strike will the iron was hot.

    Ahhh, yes. Another missed opportunity. But Jet fans should remain patient, right? Okay. We’ll just keep on waiting….

    Hey Ty,
    You want to know what kind of FA’s remain in April? They’re called scrubs. If you’re happy with the collection of leftover scraps that no one else wants, then you have a lot to look forward to and will be ecstatic in collecting guys of the ilk such as Nelson, Cribbs and Reed from last year. Have a frickin’ party for all I care.

    And another thanks to Johnny Id. It seems you have a tendency towards bargain-basement shopping. This team is screwed!

  • Lidman

    JX,

    That could be a ploy to simply get more for him. Even in a trade scenario, both the Eagles and DJax’ agenda’s would be aligned (much like NYJ and Revis last year). The Eagles want to squeeze the absolute most out of him, while Jackson wants to go to a team that will pay him significantly more, via signing guarantee, than the non-guaranteed $10+mm he’s scheduled to make this year.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. As usual you are way off. I’m not a Idzik guy. I like the change in front office philosophy because I do believe it CAN lead to sustainable success. I’m not Nostradamus so I can’t predict how he’ll do in this draft and how the players will mesh together. The jury is still out on Idzik I just like his approach. I’m not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp, I’ve said it numerous times now. Maybe you read only what you want to read. So let’s put this to bed once and for all.

  • Frank Antonelli

    As usual the clown media led by the head clown Manish is out there causing confusion. They are trying to make people believe that Woody is contradicting Idzik and wants a new approach. If you read what Woody said you’ll see this is not true. He did reference that in today’s NFL it is not unusual to get success quickly witness 2009 when the Jets hired a new coach and had a rookie QB and went to the Championship game, or Seattle as a recent example. However he wants to accomplish that in a way that is sustainable:

    “We’re always looking to make the team better. It’s not like we’re not looking at every single player that’s available — we are,” said Johnson, who referenced the Jets re-signing of seven players in addition to the market acquisitions of WR Eric Decker and RT Breno Giacomini. “We’re trying to make decisions that help the team — help the team now and down the road. So I think we’ve done a good job in that. We’ve been disciplined. We know what we’re looking for. Sustainable success. That’s what we want.”

    You guys brush off Dungy’s endorsement of Idzik. But this is a guy who should know. He’s won a Super Bowl and has had SUSTAINED SUCCESS! That is what we’re looking to build, namely, a team that can win 10 games consistently year after year. You don’t do it the Tanny way or the Jet way from years gone by. You do it the way Idzik is trying to do it. Time will tell if he is capable of implementing the strategy but there is no doubt the strategy is correct and it’s finally time that the Jets went that way.

    For you that don’t believe in the clown media check this out:

    http://www.bobsblitz.com/2013/08/video-keith-olbermann-returned-to-tv.html

  • John X

    I think it’s too late for that Lidman and yeah, this seems to be John’s MO each and every time. It’s a proven strategy for saving money.

  • Lidman

    Frank..the only way to achieve sustainable success is to have consistent play from the QB position. John Idzik can stick to any plan he wants to, but if he doesn’t have the right signal caller, he’s doomed. Just go back and look at all the bumbled drafts Bill Belechick has had, yet the Patriots keep winning the division.

    BTW, the reason I assumed you’re an Idzik guy: you constantly commend the approach he’s taking, you’ve make statements like “the team finally has an adult running things”, and you point out how Tony Dungy endorses him. I’ve never seen you ever question any of his moves, so that lead me to believe you were a fan of Idzik (and Idzik guy). By the same token, your statements regarding Tannenbaum would suggest to me you weren’t a fan of his. I guess I simply got the semantics wrong.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. Not a problem. I’m sure Idzik will make his share of mistakes. History will be the judge of the job he will ultimately do, just as history has judged Tanny. I would just hope that Jet fans give the guy a chance to complete the job before passing judgement. The negativity is getting to absurd levels.

    Of course the QB position is the single most important position on the field. However, you can win the Super Bowl without an elite QB witness what Seattle just did. How many Super Bowls have Manning and Brady won in the last seven years. NONE!

  • joeydefiant

    Frank,

    Our entire society is partially held together by the fact that people believe what the mediatells them. If people act like cattle on issues of importance they are not going to change regarding football. It doesnt matter that teams who make big splashes in free agency never do well on the field. Teams like the eagles dream team a few years ago, dolphins last year and the raiders sign all the best free agents available giving them huge contracts and over paying for their tale

  • John X

    Joey,

    Once again, who among this list of teams that were big players in FA are not considered successful in recent years:

    Denver
    New England
    Seattle
    Atlanta
    Baltimore
    NY Giants
    New Orleans

    All those teams listed above were more aggressive or more accurately, more successful in signing free agents that they needed to fill holes leading into the draft. This is not the end-all, be-all criteria for success as some bottom feeders also had success in FA. But does this reflexively mean that Cleveland, Detroit and Tampa Bay will be horrible next season? Of course not. Conversely, teams that did not go out and get players didn’t have much money to spend. The Steelers and Chiefs had no money. And these spending opportunities are generally cyclical as high-priced players come and go with each team.
    The bigger point here that EVERYONE is absolutely missing is that the Jets have not been waiting around on prospects. They have contacted and been involved with many FA’s. The difference being that in spite of the Jets having money to spend, Idzik just can’t seem to land players. He’s been trying to make a “splash” as you inaccurately reference. They want quality starters as everyone else does.

  • joeydefiant

    (sorry got cut off)
    overpaying for their talent never translates to success on the field. The narrative has already been written and decided. It doesnt matter that teams who are consistently good like the steelers and packers build home grown talent and refusee to overpay in free agency and let over valued players like greg jennings and rashard mendenhall walk. Even the patriots during their super bowl runs were not filled with high priced free agent signings. Right now the patriots are trying to load up for their last years of the brady/belichick era so pointing to their free agent signings means nothing when compared to the Jets.
    Everyone is so freaked out about the CB position. Milliner, Wilson, Walls, and Lankster is good enough to stand pat. Dont sleep on the Johnny Patrick pickup eithe. He is a young player who was drafted in the 3rd round a few years ago and was arguably the best CB the chargers had when on the field. He looked like he finally adjusted to the NFL but was injured last year. The new Chargers regime has decided to completely rework their secondary and let him go. I dont know the deal with Aaron Berry but he also has potential if he can stay healthy. If Rex thought their was no chance for the current roster

  • Frank Antonelli

    Joey. I couldn’t agree more with what you said. Nice to see someone who is isn’t fooled by the clown media and who hasn’t become so jaded by past Jet failures to lump the current administration in with them. A new day is dawning and a light is appearing at the end of the tunnel, one can hope that it’s not a train.

  • joeydefiant

    to be successful their would have been more of a priority to sign someone. The whole its not his plan he tried to sign everyone but failed is silly. He made offers to some players based on their worth and refused to overpay. Due to the team not being percieved as a super bowl contender which is not idziks fault he just got here some free agents had no desire to sign with the jets and were just using them as a bargaining chip. Idzik not being able to read minds cannot control that or base decisions on if that might be the case.

  • Lidman

    Joey,

    All I ask is: is it possible that Idzik has misvalued the market a bit? Let’s take the CB position. Between Verner and Revis, the market range was just over $6.3mm APY to $12mm APY, with fully guaranteed money between $8mm/$11.5mm. If you believe the MMQB article, by A Brandt, Idzik, who seeing where the prices of the top players only offered DRC a 1yr $6mm contract. My only contention is it’s ok to have your value, but if you’re consistently missing, than it’s certainly possible you’re wrong, not the market. On top of that, he allowed cheaper options Browner and Thurmond to trade away, and then low balled his own player-Antonio Cromartie. I understand his philosophy, but it doesn’t mean he’s right.

    For all of you pointing out how Oakland has been a ‘big player’, I think you need to remember they still have more cap space than anyone, and none of the players they have signed has anything more than a 1yr guarantee, with no salary cap implications for next year. Oakland HAD to spend money this year, to avoid putting itself further in the hole, towards the 4yr 89% rule.

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  • John X

    Yeah, some guys just don’t get it. If you want good players, expect to pay market value or they will walk. It’s that simple.
    This is free agency and 31 other teams just got a rise on their credit card limits prior to shopping hours beginning this year. You can’t lowball everyone and expect them to come a runnin’.

    Again, whenever these posters defend Idzik, they wrongfully bring up “patience”. This is a mythical term being used here as we all know the vast number of FA’s the Jets have been linked to (non-Mehta reports).

    Secondly, they will distract from the point by claiming Idzik will not overpay for these FA’s. No kidding! All I ask is that he offer them a fair deal and maybe we’ll have a shot at landing a few. He’s been cheap and if reports are true, he also refuses to negotiate.
    Gee, no wonder the Jets can’t sign anyone.

    My question now is what the hell is he waiting for today? Is he finished? Or is John waiting out the 2nd and 3rd tier players in hopes of saving a few bucks? Who are we waiting on? MJD? The Steelers will snatch him up while we look the other way. Any CB solutions? Safeties? Not a peep towards any. Or is he too busy working on some more former Jet FA’s or taking another road trip?
    Not happy with this guy and it’s NOT too early to judge. He’s swung and missed badly on the talent in this FA. I can and will judge him on that. Tough sh*t if you don’t like it or think it’s not fair. I’m sure I’m not alone.

    He was more assertive last offseason in quickly getting Goodson and Barnes and Colon when he was released. What the heck happened?

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. Citing Oakland as an example is laughable, since they barely qualify as an NFL team from a front office perspective. The fact of the matter is we have no idea how the Jets evaluated the CBs available in free agency. I’m sure that some were eliminated due to not being a fit for what Rex wants, some were eliminated due to ability, some were eliminated due to salary considerations, etc. To say we missed out on anybody at this point is getting ahead of ourselves. We’ll have to see how it plays out. I’m very positive that the Giants will regret giving DRC that contract. He had one good year playing at altitude, which is an advantage for the Broncos in general. Let’s see what he does when he gets back to sea level. I’m assuming he goes back to his previous level of play. That’s why Idzik wanted to give him a one year prove it contract which is exactly what the Broncos gave him last year!!! The year Revis was injured everyone was concerned about the pass defense and it turned out to be a false alarm. Let’s see how this plays out before passing final judgement.

  • Frank Antonelli

    John X. As usual your negative rants are hilarious. You must be a lot of fun at parties! You are like a teenage girl who wants what she wants when she wants it. Thank God Idzik is not following your timeline for events and is following his plan/strategy.

  • KAsh

    @JX

    Who of these teams that almost never sign FAs is considered not successsful:

    Bengals
    Packers
    Steelers

    Between the three, there are two Lombardi trophies in the past four years, and the remaining one is a young team rising out of one of the toughest divisions in the league. The Bengals are a consistent quarterback away from the Super Bowl.

    @Lidman

    As I pointed out to you, it is not a market. Verner and Revis are not the same goods, just with a variation in quality. There are not multiple Verners, the repeated signings of which establish an equilibrium price for a Verner. The closest market free agency resembles is a bazaar. There are no set prices at a bazaar (shopkeepers take it as an insult if you do not haggle) and the merchandise is individually crafted and of varying quality. Economic theories do not survive contact with the enemy.

    So Idzik was at a bazaar, and offered to pay $6 million for DRC. Then, Reese came along and offered to pay $7 million for five years for DRC. The shopkeeper agreed to the higher price and the deal was done. Now, Idzik could have offered $7 million, but he did not think $7 million to be wise. You could argue that DRC was worth more (I would disagree), but you cannot say that he missed out on the entire market because, again, there was no market.

  • John X

    How many trophies among the list I provided? Okay.

    And Frank must call names to those who disagree with him or aren’t bowing at the feet of someone who can’t sign jack. Whatever.

    How about being more confident in your views Frank and discussing like a grownup? You have to shout everyone down who doesn’t align exactly with your omniscient views. You sir, are pathetic.

  • Worldboy90

    @Frank

    (Insert more curses) I really don’t like you at all.

    As for the compensatory selections, I mean, that has nothing to with FA, not being happy about more picks is a little nuts in my pov… even if you think Idzik is a pretty awful gm and messed up FA (which i do), I don’t get how having more draft picks can ever be seen as bad. Quick thought though, do we have room for 12 draft picks? That could be the only negatives; I’m not sure there’s 12 players to cut from last years 52, despite the lack of talent we had, that still a lot of room to make for low round rookies, which in turn can result us in accidently discarding some diamonds in the rough.

    @Joe

    You run a great site and the best jets blog on the internet in my opinion. Just try and not get so heated on your opinion that you become too biased; the more people that shoot down Idzik, the more entrenched you seem to get about him. I just think over the last few years you’ve really done a great job of being fair and looking at both angles, and it’d be a shame if emotion started getting in the way of fantastic writing. Not saying your wrong, but when you say something like “Root for OAK if you support FA!!!” your coming off a little silly man, I could say Pats and Broncos were very active in free agency too, and I’d wager quiet a bit of coin one or the other will be in the SB come next february.

    Just my 2 cents.

    More curses sent your way Frank ;). Use your imagination.

  • Big Al

    idzik in this for the long haul, u cant keep everyone on ur roster, this isn’t fantasy football for christ sake! do fans expect that defense to be in tact in 2 years if we spend all our cap money now??? use ur brains,, the only thing he will HAVE to do next draft if Geno fails, is draft a QB in first round next year and start over, other than that!!, he is on his way!

  • John X

    WB,

    You touched off on a good point. These two wouldn’t need to be insulting if they were more confident in their opinions. Anyone who holds strong convictions doesn’t need to stoop to such name-calling. They are extremely insecure and it shows in their posts.
    In their world, should one disagree, they must instantly be outcast. It shows who they are and this isn’t a secret to the readers here.

    As for your point on the low draft picks, that’s exactly right. How many Josh Bush’s are going to make the team? Who isn’t happy that Idzik was able to get extra picks? That’s one thing but to force a happy face as these two continually shove down our throat, I take exception to that. People can have differing opinions.
    I don’t have to have a fake smiley face for the utter failure to sign any talent to fill the multiple voids on this team. And I won’t fake a smile for believing a bunch of late 6th round picks is now going to save the day. Okay, it’s nice but don’t write 8 posts (not you) daring everyone to somehow oppose that line of thinking. Not happening. In fact, you guys are simply inviting me. Nothing less.

  • Frank Antonelli

    The dual idiotic comedy act of Worldboy90 and John X are here. John X you obviously aren’t capable of understanding my arguments with that Grade 1 education. You are both pathetic negative so called fans. Why don’t you both take your crap somewhere else where it will be appreciated.

  • joeydefiant

    Comparing the Broncos and Patriots current free agency strategy to the Jets is ridiculous. The Broncos and Patriots both have hall of fame QB’s with very few years left in their careers. Of course they are trying to hit a home run. The Jets are at the other end of the spectrum trying to develop a young QB and a bunch of young pieces around him.

    And for those who think anyone not drafted in Day One of the draft is a “scrub”, according to the NY Times 38% of “top performing players” were taken after the first round.

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/04/25/sports/football/picking-the-best-in-the-nfl-draft.html?_r=0

    From 2004-2013 39 players drafted in rounds 4-7 made the pro bowl and even more UDFA’s made the pro bowl. Interesting side note: The Jets are ranked as the 5th best drafting team.(using pro bowl appearances as a metric which I understand is not perfect) and the 3rd best team in rounds 4-7. The Jets performance in rounds 1-3 was not as good but not too bad (ranked 15th.)

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Which-teams-are-the-most-efficient-in-the-NFL-Draft.html

  • Frank Antonelli

    Joey. Careful. You’re use of statistics and logic may be too much for that idiotic duo to understand! Negative people only listen to other negative people. It’s a vicious circle!

  • joeydefiant

    Having 12 picks in what scouts are calling “the deepest draft they have ever been around” is HUGE. It could set the Jets up for continued success for the next 5-10 years. Even if they only hit on a third of the picks and 8 are busts 4 young impact players is a great draft and I expect the Jets to do even better than that. Idzik’s first draft is still too early to grade but so far has been pretty good.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Joey. Here’s a fact. Ozzie and the Ravens retain all-time lead in compensatory picks. Got 4 this year, now at 41. Jets get 4 this year, now at only 17. That’s a huge difference and one of the reasons we’ve not been able to sustain success like the Ravens have been able to do. But according to the idiotic ramblings of John X those picks don’t mean anything!

  • Justin C.

    Would you guys please just stop with the name calling and arguments? Just agree to disagree. There is no point in getting angry with each other’s opinions. There is no right or wrong. The point of websites like this is to share our love and thoughts of the team. There is no reason to hate each other. We are all Jets fans here.

  • joeydefiant

    It does seem that the Jets would be better served using a Tannenbaum era strategy in the draft of trading up into the first round with some of the later picks if possible. The success of players drafted early is much much greater.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Boom-or-bust-A-look-at-draft-probabilities.html

    Picks 1-73 you have at least a 1 in 3 chance of getting a 5 year starter where the numbers drop off significantly after pick 73 which is up to the top quarter/third of the 3rd round.

    Looking at the data I posted earlier it seems Tanny didn’t do such a bad job with the draft. Team success is highly correlated with hitting on your QB selection. If you get lucky with your QB selection you are set for 10-15 years. Would Belichick and the Patriots be considered so great if they didn’t get lucky in the 6th round? There is no way they had Brady rated highly on their board if they waited until the 6th round to grab him. I would think the best strategy would be to draft QB’s early and often until you find a “great” one. I would not be opposed to the Jets using a early pick on another QB if someone falls into the Jets lap like Geno did last year. There is no way you can consider the Geno pick a bad pick. If there is even a small chance that a QB can turn into a great QB he should be selected.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Here’s a great article on why you don’t go head first into free agency. BUYER BEWARE. Of course only read this if you have an ability to understand a complex concept.

    Buyer Beware
    Fans love the flurry of free agency. Unfortunately, so do some teams. But if you think that shiny free agent signing is too good to be true, it probably is

    Free agency is an exciting time, and that’s the problem. Amidst the excitement, fans and media overvalue unsigned players. Worse yet, so do coaches and general managers.

    The NFL system is not set up for great players to hit free agency. The last thing a team wants is to invest draft picks, coaching hours, practice reps and game time in a player only to see him prosper elsewhere. A player the team thinks can truly prosper isn’t allowed to go elsewhere; he gets tagged or re-signed. With financial whizzes employed to help manage the salary cap, an NFL front office can almost always find a way to retain a vital player.

    So, it reasons, a player who reaches free agency all but promises to have a flaw. For example, in 2009 Albert Haynesworth had all the big ones: work ethic issues, poor character, susceptibility to injury, limited position versatility and, most common of all, an inflated price tag. The fact that the Titans let their All-Pro hit free agency in his prime was a dead giveaway that his flaws were worse than outsiders could imagine.

    This isn’t to say that free agents are bad; it’s merely to say that free agents are complex and must be considered with caution. Football’s complexity and team-oriented nature leaves players at the mercy of factors beyond their control. The schemes and systems vary more from club to club, and one’s playing style must mesh with that of those around him. For stars, this isn’t a problem. But for flawed players, it can be.

  • Worldboy90

    @Frank

    Mommy didn’t give you enough hugs and kisses? Been reading a lot of self-help books lately talking about “negativity”? Am I being mean to you and ruining your positive growth :(?? I’m Sowwwy. Btw you must be one of the best people I’ve met using a bunch of fancy words creating absolute non-sensical ramblings in your fresh air deprived mind. And buddy, LOL on the great players not hitting FA; A lil guy called Peyton Manning has hit, and Another one called Revis, another guy called Demarcus Ware… Etc. And every single player in the world has freaking flaws you troll, nobody and nothing is perfect, but you try and build around the best ones when you have the most cap space in the league, in a LEAGUE that requires everyone to spend it over a four year period, which mathemetically means in 2015/16 we’ll have to spend every last penny of whatever we saved this year just to hit the cap. Actually idk why I argue you with you, its like arguing politics with a dog; are you really gonna understand me yelling at you while you bark back?

    @Joey.

    39 players from round 4-7 making the pro bowl over a 10 year span is you saying the likelihood of finding a really good player in those rounds in any given year is roughly, 1/70 for any given team. GREAT way to back up your argument man. Then you proceed to tell me our Odds are good to find four such players this THIS YEAR. Lol; thats all.

    And one more thing; Ravens Do FA. Every team good or bad does FA for the most part; except the steelers in my opinion (GB usually signs and impact veteran or two a year), because, it is part of building a team. And to contribute Ozzie Newsomes Success as a GM to having compensatory picks is one of the craziest things I’ve ever heard; that would make such a tiny overall difference on his roster, its almost equivalent to saying he’s successful as a GM because he wears black shoes.

    And Frank, forever more curses your way! I’ll probably get banned before you becase you agree with Joe’s opinions, but I’ve really been enjoying watching you have your fits in your posts :). Hugs and kisses*

  • joeydefiant

    Verner wanted to stay a colt so the jets would have had to blow him away with an offer whoch is another way of saying overpay. DRC wanted to retire a month ago how much value do you place on him whose own team who just made a deep run decided to replace? The fact is whoever the Jets passed up on 30 other gms agreed and didnt place a higher bid either.

  • John X

    Funny posts.

    Joey – I think you need to read better. You’re lack of comprehension of what was actually written differ greatly in your replies.
    Frank – you’re the saddest poster here so desperately looking for affirmation and viciously attacking anyone with differing opinions. I will no longer respond or even read your garbage and suggest others to follow suit. A hopeless troll if ever I saw one.

  • Joe Caporoso

    Well said Justin C!

  • Lidman

    Kash…

    We’ll agree to disagree on what a ‘market’ is. Go to any over the counter market, and tell me those aren’t free markets where the participants determine the value of the goods. If you want to buy Apple Stock today, and want to pay $500 a share, you’re off the market and will miss. That’s how I see the NFL FA system, and the players are the goods. I’m not going to belabor this anymore. You’re simply argumentative, and believe in your own omniscience.

    Frank

    I cite Oakland because I believe they are doing what they need to do. It’s not a matter of who they’re signing, they HAVE to spend money. If you’re looking at the ‘clown media’s’ headlines on their signings, you’re misinformed and should be looking at ‘the details’ of their deals. They’ve signed a number of players, yes. But, they all basically have 1yr guarantees, and don’t tie up Oakland’s salary cap past 2014, if the team decides to cut bait with them. As for your comment they are a laughable franchise, you’re right, their recent history shows that. However, the Patriots used to be a laughable franchise, as were the Packers and Saints and 49ers. The moves McKenzie made were savvy, spending cash this year-because he knows he had a ton of it, and it needs to be used. He has all his picks, and simply needs time to rebuild the stock out there. Can he do it? I don’t know, but if you don’t think what he’s doing is right, I don’t think you understand how the CBA mandates he spends.

    Eventually Idzik is going to have to spend money. I thought there were some players available, this year, he should have made a play for. He didn’t and he has that job. However, he’s going to make a big signing eventually, let’s just hope it’s not the result of him running out of players to spend it on, or the right players to spend it on.

    JoeyD,

    I didn’t read the NYT article, but using this quote:
    “And for those who think anyone not drafted in Day One of the draft is a “scrub”, according to the NY Times 38% of “top performing players” were taken after the first round.”

    If I’m reading it correctly, it means that 62% of the ‘top performing players’ were taken in round 1. So, the odds of picking a ‘top player’ is nearly double in round 1, than it is for the remainder of the entire draft. We all know it’s possible to find Pro-Bowl players, after round 1. However, telling me that 39 players, drafted between rounds 4-7, over a 10yr period, made the Pro Bowl isn’t compelling evidence to support acquiring extra low round picks, in my opinion.

  • Lidman

    Justin C…

    No doubt it can get ‘catty’, but debates/arguments mean multiple responses and responses equal ‘hits’ on the website…so, when you’re selling ad space, on a website, the number of ‘hits’ you get is as important as anything.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Lidman, NFL free agency is absolutely not a free market, only trolls continually “double-down” on their ignorant assertions…

  • Frank Antonelli

    John X. Only a very negative person would not be happy about the Jets getting 4 additional picks via the compensatory process. You must be a very sad negative person to be around. Hopefully you can come out of that negative stupor you’re in and learn to become a more positive and productive member of society.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. If you think McKenzie is capable of turning that franchise around then I can’t help you. Idzik has the same mandates but he’s not going to blow his money before he has to on players he really doesn’t want at the prices they are signing for, no matter how many teenage girls like John X scream for him to do so. He’ll use the money eventually but he’ll use it wisely and judiciously instead of just spending for spending purposes. Here’s a little remedial homework for you:

    Buyer Beware
    Fans love the flurry of free agency.

    Unfortunately, so do some teams. But if you think that shiny free agent signing is too good to be true, it probably is

    Free agency is an exciting time, and that’s the problem. Amidst the excitement, fans and media overvalue unsigned players. Worse yet, so do coaches and general managers.

    The NFL system is not set up for great players to hit free agency. The last thing a team wants is to invest draft picks, coaching hours, practice reps and game time in a player only to see him prosper elsewhere. A player the team thinks can truly prosper isn’t allowed to go elsewhere; he gets tagged or re-signed. With financial whizzes employed to help manage the salary cap, an NFL front office can almost always find a way to retain a vital player.
    So, it reasons, a player who reaches free agency all but promises to have a flaw. For example, in 2009 Albert Haynesworth had all the big ones: work ethic issues, poor character, susceptibility to injury, limited position versatility and, most common of all, an inflated price tag. The fact that the Titans let their All-Pro hit free agency in his prime was a dead giveaway that his flaws were worse than outsiders could imagine.

    This isn’t to say that free agents are bad; it’s merely to say that free agents are complex and must be considered with caution. Football’s complexity and team-oriented nature leaves players at the mercy of factors beyond their control. The schemes and systems vary more from club to club, and one’s playing style must mesh with that of those around him. For stars, this isn’t a problem. But for flawed players, it can be.

  • Zeb

    Just a question: what is a ‘free market’ then? If you look it up, Webster defines it this way:

    free market
    noun

    : an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free%20market

    Sounds like FA to me, 32 teams have the ability to compete for FA without any government control in where they go. You have cases, in the NFL, where a player signs somewhere solely based on money: think Mario Williams going to Buffalo a few years ago. You have players who choose to take a pay cut so they can remain with the team they are currently with: think Chris Snee’s situation with NYG this year. You have players who choose to take a below market value contract in order to give themselves a shot at winning, like Tom Brady has done with NE. You also have players who are unable to find multiple bids for their services, which dictates a where they play and for how much: like Antonio Cromartie.

    In all these scenarios, players and teams make their own choices based on their perceptions of ‘value’. You can call it a bazaar, or an over the counter market, but in both cases it’s free. Kash/JJ, I don’t see the point in arguing this, but then again, I’m new to this site and many of you argue…to…well argue.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Worldboy90. You’re so pathetic it’s becoming funny. Here is one of your posts on another board:

    “For some odd reason all sound has stopped working on my Windows XP. I checked the sound Volume, checked the speaker connection, switched speakers (twice), and have looked for every possible logical reason why the sound completely ceased to function on my computer. Any help would be greatly appreciated because I miss my music while I write :(. Thanks.”

    Not only are you football challenged but computer challenged as well. Oh yea nice prediction last year that the Jets would only win 2 games. What a loser!

  • Frank Antonelli

    John X. So you’re not going to respond to me anymore. Well just to show you that I have no hard feelings I’ll wish you well when you try out for the special Olympics later this year.

  • Lidman

    Jeremiah Johnson..we’ll agree to disagree. I’m comfortable with my understanding of markets.

    Frank,

    “I’m not Nostradamus”, so I can’t tell you if what McKenzie is doing will work. All I’m saying is if you have to spend, in cash terms, 89% of the cumulative cap, between ’12-’16 and you are nearly $60mm under the cap, for this coming year, you have to spend money. McKenzie is simply spending cash this year, he’s not making any commitments the team can’t walk away from next year, just go look at the details of the contracts he signed (on Over The Cap).

    “Idzik has the same mandates but he’s not going to blow his money before he has to on players he really doesn’t want at the prices they are signing for, no matter how many teenage girls like John X scream for him to do so.” You’re not an Idzik guy, but you continue champion everything he does as being right. How do you know how the guys he missed on will perform? Second, Oakland was 60mm under the cap..the NYJ were 40mm, it’s a big difference. If McKenzie didn’t spend this year, he’s be putting the team in a spot, the next 2yrs, where they likely have to overpay to meet his obligations, of the CBA spending floor. If any GM winds up being under that 89% number, and misses out on players, because of what they view as value, vs what the players they miss receive, than they are doing their team an injustice because that money will simply have to be dispersed amongst the players they are already employing. I could argue that would be overpaying some of the guys on their own roster, who were signed at Idzik’s view of value.

  • Zeb

    Frank..Special Olympics? My son has a disability. I think comments like this are disgraceful and insensitive.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. You love going around in circles. I thought we put the fact that I’m not an Idzik guy to rest. Jesus! I like his approach and thus I don’t like McKenzie’s approach. It’s that simple. SPENDING BIG ON FREE AGENCY IS A LOSER’S GAME. The smart teams like to spend their money on the players they developed. The really good players don’t make it to free agency. As the article pointing out the players that do make it have serious issues, ie, Mannning neck, Mevis attitude and contract demands, Ware injury prone, etc. Go back and re-read the article and hopefully it will sink in.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Zeb. It was a joke, lighten up buddy.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    Zen, you chose a rather poor & simplistic definition of free market.

    Rather consider this definition:

    noun
    an economic system in which prices and wages are determined by unrestricted competition between businesses, without government regulation or fear of monopolies.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/free+market

    The NFL is most certainly a monopoly, there are most certainly government regulations involved in NFL contracts, & competition between businesses (teams) is VERY limited.

  • John X

    Competition is limited? I’d say it’s vast and constant in the NFL. Teams vying for the same players with others going as far as spying on each other. Teams like the Jets and Pats typically take PS players to gain insight on their playbooks. Incorporating the best of what teams are running and mimicking into their own success. I can’t think of a more competitive business. I honestly can’t. It’s fierce and brutal.

    As far as government regulations concerned in NFL contracts, I don’t understand how/why that would apply. The government doesn’t regulate their operations – they don’t work for the government. They pay taxes but that’s the only involvement I would be aware of.

    Besides that, Zeb was referencing the free market among free agents. So your definition doesn’t really apply here. It’s out of context with the fact that the market does indeed dictate player value in this case. Jared Allen today just signed a 4-yr, 32M dollar deal because his abilities and performance dictate that price range that a team (CHI) was willing to offer. Simple economics. Supply and demand in terms of a performance-based contract.

  • Zeb

    JJ

    I certainly think you can make an argument that the NFL, as an entity, is a monopoly. However, the teams within the league all play under the same rules and the same salary cap. When players hit free agency, no matter how limited you may believe that is, they are on the ‘free market’. So, if you don’t think a CB is worth ‘X’, you have the right to not pay that, however, if other teams, you’re competing with, do believe that CB is worth ‘X’, than that is his worth-whether the performance matches or doesn’t match. Now a true monopoly was when there was no Free Agency and players had no choice because there was no competition for their services. Why a player, or when a player, reaches free agency isn’t relevant. When they reach it, they are on the open market for any team to sign. Heck, if some CFL team comes in and wants to pay them more than an NFL team, they can do that too (like baseball players who migrate to Japan).
    As far as government control, where do you see government control that regulates where NFL players move to play?

    Frank..joke or not, it’s insensitive and needless to say.

  • Lidman

    Frank,

    I’m going in circles? You made a comment about McKenzie. All I was saying was, like you did with Idzik, I don’t know if he will be successful. I do know he has to spend money-sure, he could have exercised the choice to wait until next year, but that only exacerbates the problem. You do get that, right?

    I don’t argue the way the system is set up that you can’t build a team via FA alone. You simply don’t have enough money to spend. However, with a rising cap, to suggest not adding good football players is a good strategy, is wrong to me. The NYJ don’t need to worry about signing their own, they don’t have any pressure to do so. That argument makes no sense to me..unless of course they intend to go above market to sign Wilkerson. The majority of their good, young, talent is 2-3yrs away from being eligible to be extended. They could have employed McKenzie’s strategy and signed guys to deals that had decent 1 yr payouts, and gave them the upside of future years. They chose not to do it. We’ll soon see if there able to fill the holes they have, at the prices they believe are correct.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Zeb. It obviously wasn’t directed at your son. You’re being way too sensitive which is par for the course in today’s politically correct environment. Proof that George Orwell was way ahead of his time when he wrote his “1984″ novel.

    Examples of politically correct bullshit.

    midget = vertically challenged
    fat = horizontally challenged
    perverted = sexually dysfunctional
    alive = temporarily metabolically abled
    Negro = African American
    Indian = Native American
    Anyone from Central America, South America, or the Carribean = Hispanic
    body odor = nondiscretionary fragrance
    dishonese = ethically disoriented
    gay = different
    wrong = differently logical
    dead = living impaired
    pregnant = parasitically opressed
    fired = laid off
    poor = financially inept
    homeless = residentially flexible
    tall = person of height
    garbage-man = sanitation engineer
    blind = visually challenged
    John X = Negative miserable human being

  • Frank Antonelli

    Lidman. You ARE going around in circles in terms of my supposed love for Idzik. I thought we put the fact that I’m not an Idzik guy to rest. Jesus! I like his approach and thus I don’t like McKenzie’s approach. It’s that simple. Do you understand why you’re going around in circles?????

    Idzik will have to spend but again:

    SPENDING BIG ON FREE AGENCY IS A LOSER’S GAME.

    The smart teams like to spend their money on the players they developed and fill in with wise free agency signings, trade and the draft. You’re like a teenage girl who wants everything immediately. Idzik has A LOT OF TIME to spend the money required stop being so impatient. Judge him at the appropriate time not after 2 weeks in free agency.

  • Zeb

    It has nothing to do with political correctness or oversensitivity. I simply don’t understand the need to call someone an idiot, teenage girl or special olympian because they don’t agree with your views. you in trouble. Instead, you remind me of my 3yr old son, who when he doesn’t get what he wants, throws a tantrum and says, or does, things out of frustration. In parting, I’ll say two things: I take no offense, and will just stop engaging you. Second, I’ll tell you what I tell my son: be a big boy and use your words. If you read 1984, you should be able to do so.

  • Lidman

    Frank,

    You can tell me all you want that you’re ‘not an Idzik guy’. To piggy back off of Zeb, ‘your words’ tell anyone who reads them that you are an Idzik guy.

    We’ve gone long enough on this topic, let’s move to something else.

    Enjoy the day fellas.

  • Worldboy90

    @Frank

    How the hot pocket and porn life treating ya bud? As to my other post, wtf are you talking about you creep? Where in the world did you find that, or are you some lunatic who made up some insane story about me not being able to get my speakers to work?

    In conclusion; suck it. Hope you have a miserable day, but I know you’ll enjoy every last greazy burger and fetish video regardless ;).

  • John X

    The longer Joe allows this miscreant to ramble his belligerence speaks volumes to the quality of this site.

    It’s become quite a poor product of late with a poster run rampant of the equivalent to a pit bull not taking meds. That’s a shame. Shame on you, Joe. This is what you want.

  • Frank Antonelli

    John X and Worldboy90. Shame on you. You are polluting this fine site with your constant negativity. You both are miserable human beings. You can’t even be happy about the Jets getting 4 additional draft picks. Pathetic.

  • Worldboy90

    @John X

    Nah its cool, Joe needs to get hits and I understand that. I mean honestly I love his site and most the work he put out, just strongly disagree with him on Idzik. And as to Frank, he’s that wierd, twitchy, awkward smelly kid in class who likes to make up stories about how cool his life is and then goes home and watches alot of porn / hot wings. You know the type? So let him yell, he gets a kick out of thinking he’s hot shit in the midst of his miserable life by being able to yell his opinions on this site, and we get to observe the wierd twitchy kid and study him like some creature in a cage. All is fair :P.

    Biggest surprise to me is that even Kash dropped out of supporting the wierd twitchy Kid, I think THAT speaks volumes on how toxic Franky is. Aren’t you buddy :)?

  • Frank Antonelli

    Zeb. You obviously haven’t been reading my posts accurately. I’m tired of negative posters who can’t even get excited about the Jets getting 4 additional draft picks. This is supposed to be a site for positive Jet fans. Idzik’s approach is a proven one and hopefully he’ll be successful in taking the Jets to the next level. Good luck with your life and your son.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Worldboy90. If you look at your posts you are taking way more negative unfounded attacks at me then I ever took at you. You don’t know me. I can assure I’ve achieved way more during my life than you ever will. You’re a negative loser buddy.

  • Worldboy90

    I think i made it sad :(. Will some chocolate cheer you up buddy? And Nah, you started this you creepy lil thing, I’m just finishing it.

    And PS your lord Idzik missed out another FA Rex wanted while you were finding a second use for that kleenex.

  • Frank Antonelli

    WOrldboy90. Wow, you are beyond negative. You take a shot at everything Idzik does. Why are you on this site, you seem to hate the Jets and Idzik so much. Go find something productive to do with your useless life. You are a waste of human skin.

  • Worldboy90

    @Frank

    Don’t know what you fantasize about in your free time, but stay away from my skin u lil creep. And I’m actually in class, so I think I’m being productive? Maybe? Anyways, that’ll be my last comment to u for today, this thread has been littered with enough of my garbage bashing on you (not as much as your garbage posts, but I still feel bad adding to the pollution).

    And again franky, just because I think someone is bad at their job, doesn’t mean I don’t like them. And Vice Versa, Idc if your the second coming of mother theresa in your job, I dislike you on principle of you being a creep :).

    Anyone can think of any teams that have a surplus of CB’s and that we could possibly pry one away?

  • John X

    Wah, wah, waaaaahhhh!!!!!!!!

    The irony is how the biggest negative poster here accuses everyone else of being so for simply having an opinion. Hey Frankie boy – do tell us all how we should think and behave, won’t you? Hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
    Hilarious.

    He’s too blind to even realize that.

    Ande a real tough guy on the internet. Oooohh…insulting everyone. Couldn’t be more cowardly. You live in NY, Frankie boy? Maybe we could meet over a beer? Just for fun. I’d love to see who you are in person.

    I think he’s actually Joe in another name. It’s why he won’t be banned. Gotta love it.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Worldboy90 and John X. A pair of pathetic losers. Hope you both get the treatment you both so obviously need. Oh yea John X you said you wouldn’t respond to me. Just another lie among the many you’ve told in your life.

  • Zeb

    Frank,

    Just because a guy disagrees with the approach Idzik is taking doesn’t make him negative. I’ll bet if the NYJ make a deep playoff run, with homegrown talent and late season signings, the folks questioning Idzik will be happy to say they were wrong.

    I agree with how Idzik wants to build, but ignorning FA isn’t necessarily right. Just look at recent Super Bowl winners:

    Seattle: Signed Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril and traded for/gave big contract to Percy Harvin

    Baltimore: Anquan Boldin (traded and extended), Vontae Davis, Cory Grahmam and Jacoby Jones.

    NYG: Antrelle Rolle and Chris Canty were both big signings.

    Idzik didn’t have to blow through the vast amount of cap space he had, but he certainly could have upgraded the talent level, and reduced the teams needs a bit more.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    John X, Zeb, Lidman, I’m not going to participate in discussing how supply/demand curves do not **SOLELY** set prices for NFL free agents nor how the assumption that what 1 owner is willing to pay is not the “market price as determined by a free market” with you further until you successfully pass a college level economics course.

  • Frank Antonelli

    Zeb. It’s amazing that when the Jets change their approach to free agency to be more in line with what other successful organizations have done in the past the media and some so called Jet fans take shots at them. I’m sure if they had continued with their previous failed free agent policy the media and some so called Jet fans would take shots at them for doing that. It seems they are in a no win situation.

    The fact of the matter is that successful teams have approached their business the way Idzik is trying to do it. It doesn’t mean he will be successful or he won’t make mistakes but the bottom line is that the Jets are finally adopting the correct approach to building a successful NFL football team.

  • LeeBur

    Someone needs to just man up here and not respond back to a negative poster.

    JX- low blow on Joe wasnt necessary either.

    I do like the economics lessons though. I thought i graduated college many years ago, but i guess not.

  • Worldboy90

    @JJ

    Hey I’ve passed three! And I’m minoring in economics. Its not economics in traditional sense, because there’s usually only 3-5 buyers vs per say 10,000. So when we say Idzik has no idea what the market is, we are implying that the man is too stubborn to pay over his own set values to acquire nessecary Talent to compete with his peers. His peers in turn, are able to acquire said talent by out-bidding him. Losing every bidding war doesn’t particularly make you “a sharp negotiator” or whatever you idzites are calling him nowadays, it just means your views are too cheap to succesfuly acquire talent you need. Because not only are we not acquiring talent, we have so much cap space that numerically speaking, we’ll have to spend 100% of cap in 2015/ 2016,as well as everything we roll over from this year, just to avoid not wasting money and just paying it back into the players we already have, thus really “wasting” money.

  • Zeb

    Jeremiah,

    When you call the NFL a monopoly, when you don’t really understand the definition of the term, it’ hard to debate with you.

    Question: Jarius Byrd was a free agent. Did the NFL or US Government determine where he wound up? Do you believe he was forced to sign with New Orleans, or chose to sign with New Orleans? How is this not a functioning free market. I’m not trying to be sarcastic, or insulting. I’m truly asking you to explain to me how you don’t see this, or any other signing, being a function of a free market, and how the NFL’s monopoly affects where these players go. I’m educated, graduated from an Ivy League institution, and have a job in finance. I think I have a solid understanding of economics and markets, but I’m always open to learning. I just don’t understand your premise, that’s all.

  • Justin C.

    Free agency sounds quite similar to free market to me…

  • Harold

    Worldboy90

    Just so you know our net spend is based on a 4 year average. So we could spend as little as 56% vs the cap this year and spend 100% each of the next 3 years and still comply.

    Just FYI

  • Zeb

    Harold..no doubt, but if the cap keep rising, it makes catching up all the more difficult. Right now the combined caps are roughly $256mm, which mean teams, on track need to be at $227.84mm by the completion of this year. Right now they are nearly $29mm under the cap, and next year the project to only $75mm under the cap as Harris comes off and both Mangold and ‘Brick get cheaper. The point is saving, and allowing your team cap flexibility is well and good, but if the cap continues going higher, eventually the team is going to have to reconcile the large disecrepancy it’s building now.

    I think Lidman had a good point, on how Oakland, while signing a lot of FA isn’t hurting itself, because most are 1yr deals, and they are spending their cash outlay to avoid having the problem, it appears the NYJ are.

  • Zeb

    Harold..it’s not a 4yr average either, it’s the 4 yr cumulative spend, in cash. So, if the cap numbers were 123, 133, 142 and 152, to equal 755mm, than the team has to spend, in cash, 671.95mm during that time.

    So, say the NYJ were to extend Mo, for 5yrs at 50mm, with a 10mm signing bonus and matching 8mm salaries (to make it easy). This year, they’d be paying out 18mm, in cash, which would count towards that number. But next year, the $2mm signing bonus, which is pro rated, doesn’t count at their cash spending, while it does count against their cap spending. They’ll be giving out a lot of roster bonuses, which is all well and good, but could put them in a position where they are paying huge money, for one year deals. So, while they poo poo the idea of bring in Darelle Revis for 12mm, eventually they’ll be doing something like that…

  • Zeb

    Harold..it’s not a 4yr average either, it’s the 4 yr cumulative spend, in cash. So, if the cap numbers were 123, 133, 142 and 152, to equal 755mm, than the team has to spend, in cash, 671.95mm during that time. If the cap were remaining flat, it wouldn’t be as sifnificant, but when you look at how their cap number goes down the next 2yrs, the relatively low number of players who will be eligible for extension, and what appears to be a rising cap, it’s not hard to see them having to overpay people to make the numbers work. Sure, it’s great to pay your own guys, but do we want another situation where a David Harris type is both earning what he’s earning, but counting that much toward the cap (I’m sure it’s a major reason why they didn’t ask him to restructure-they can’t afford to save money!)

  • John X

    Hey everyone,

    Schefter reports that the Jets were in on Jared Allen. This shouldn’t surprise anyone since he went to another team.

    Hey LeeBur,

    Low blow or not, he’s allowing this nut job to insult nearly every one of his followers. I think that’s the bigger issue but that’s just me.

    Jeremiah,
    It was nice talking to you. Whatever.