Message from New York Jets Brass – It Is a Long Offseason

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Put down the torch and pitchfork fans. Take a deep breath. Rome wasn’t built in a day, or ten. Today the New York Jets top men, John Idzik and Rex Ryan, went out of their way to drive that point home. 

In what appears to be a heavy handed public relations initiative, Ryan and Idzik sat down with Eric Allen of the New York Jets Official Website.

These sort of interviews are not uncommon, but the fact that they were released just days before mandatory media availability at the Spring Meetings raises eyebrows. Speculatively, the organization may hope that these interviews will serve as a balm for irritated fans and accusatory media. Following the maelstrom that was the first forty-eight hours of free agency, Idzik and the Jets caught a lot of flak for their conservative approach.

Despite the heavy dose of “team speak” and regardless of motivation, Idzik and Ryan seemed sincere and provided Jets faithful with some interesting nuggets. While they were asked about such hot topics as Michael Vick and concerns at cornerback, both refrained from specifics in favor of generalities. However, during a related conference call, Ryan spoke very highly of Ras-I Dowling and Darrin Walls in particular. Dowling, when healthy, could easily compete for the starting job and Walls’ two year contract should speak to the team’s plans for him.

Idzik touched (lightly) on the Vick’s impending visit to Florham Park. The GM said that having a source with “inside knowledge” on a player (see: Marty Mornhinweg) is helpful in the recruiting process. He also mentioned that free agent visits are as much about a player scoping out a team as the team evaluating the player. These are both factors to keep in mind when it comes to Vick and the Jets.

Idzik and Ryan clearly had a theme, however, that overshadowed any specifics they dropped. Both coach and general manager appeared to be content with their offseason work thus far. Both made a point to highlight the return of some key contributors from 2013: Pace, Colon, Cumberland, Walls, Lankster, and Bellore. They went on to express their belief in the core already in place. Beyond that, Idzik and Ryan clearly see the roster as a work in progress.

The Jets significant remaining cap space is not burning a hole in their pocket, rather, it is being saved for a rainy day. Idzik specifically mentioned his preference for flexibility regarding the cap. He hinted that when opportunities present themselves (read trades or camp cuts), he wants to be in a position to take advantage.

In the past ten days we have learned much about Idzik’s strategy regarding team building. The man is calculating and deliberate. He spoke at length about how he assigns values to players:

“Our evaluations are, in the most simplistic form, three fold: you find out about the player, you find out about the person, and then you place a value on that and how it would mesh into what you have here.”

With this strategy in mind, consider what Idzik had to say when defining winning:

“When we define winning, it’s not winning the first week of free agency, it’s not winning the draft, it’s not winning our preseason games. It’s winning going forward in what we do. It’s sustainable success.”

Sustainable success. Long term consideration. Think about it, when was the last time these terms were associated with the Jets organization? What Idzik is preaching is nothing new. It has been the strategy of dynasties and perennial winners for ages. Build through the draft and supplement through free agency.

So far this offseason, Idzik’s unflinching faithfulness to his pre-determined values has driven away at least one player that we know of (Dominique Rogers-Cromartie). Perhaps Idzik has too much conviction and not enough flexibility. Then again, perhaps Idzik’s one year, six million dollar evaluation of Rogers-Cromartie was right on the money, given that he has had one solid season and hinted at retirement.

Unflinching in the face of ire from fans and the media, John Idzik and his front office staff will continue on their set trajectory. Free agency is not over. New trade possibilities arise. The draft is just seven weeks away. Patience is a virtue, it is a long off season.

62 thoughts on “Message from New York Jets Brass – It Is a Long Offseason

  1. Cole,

    I hope you’re right. However, I would not take ‘Ryan being sincere’ as any sign. What we do know about the guy is he’s fiercely loyal the the NYJ, and the guys in his foxhole, even if he doesn’t agree with him (see his allowing Pettine to run the defense, the pick of Hill and his allegiance to Sanchez as some of the many examples). Second, when has he ever come out and not been positive about his team’s prospects? Now, he may actually truly believe what he is saying, so there is that possibility. However, I think it would be naive to believe he would come off as worried.

    I believe season ticket holder invoices go out either tomorrow, or next week. My own feeling is this is directed at any possible season ticket holders who might not renew.
    What all of us NYJ fans should remember is last year didn’t appear to look that good either. My own feeling is this team, currently has taken a step back. Trades can happen, but big NFL trades are much more the exception (when compare the the other 3 sports) than the rule. I’m hoping for a big draft and Rex’ ability to coach up, and get the most, out of his developing players. I have to, because plain and simple, Idzik missed some opportunities to improve this team over the past week and a bit. I don’t think anyone can refute that.

  2. Well said, Cole. If anyone followed Idziks comments from the end of the season they would’ve been more prepared for the free agency we’ve had thus far. Media outlets leaked that the jets would be “aggressive” in free agency and had them linked to almost anyone on the market who filled a need and these media outlets backed these claims by unnamed sources. Idzik has said he is going use the draft as his lifeline and free agency as phoning a friend. If that doesn’t say it all I don’t what else would. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion on Idzik and that’s fine but personally I like his approach. There’s 6 months left before the season starts I guarantee a starting caliber corner will be brought in eventually. For me Idziks real grading will come after the draft when we all see what he does with the 10-12 draft picks we will have. If he drafts properly he can literally re shape our roster in 72 hours. Keep calm and jet on.

  3. As long as the Jets do not sign Vick, the dog killer, I will be calm and accepting of Idzik’s moves. If Idzik signs Vick, there is no role model for my son on the Jets, and I will give up my season tickets (as painfull as that will be.) I will have to find another team for me and my son to root for.

  4. This is what is shocking Jet fans:

    Sustainable success. Long term consideration. Think about it, when was the last time these terms were associated with the Jets organization? What Idzik is preaching is nothing new. It has been the strategy of dynasties and perennial winners for ages. Build through the draft and supplement through free agency.

    Jets are finally acting like they have a long term plan instead of just reacting to the latest situation, ie, Holmes becomes available Rex tells Tanny we need him, they sign him with little thought of long term impact to the team. Tebow becomes available Tanny reacts quickly and doesn’t think of the long term impact. Thank God Idzik is in place. Patience fellow Jet fans. The approach is sound, we’ll find out whether Idzik is capable of executing it properly. Time will tell, but believe me it’s about time the Jets had an adult in the front office.

  5. So how long are all of you willing to give Idzik? If the Jets aren’t in the playoffs this year, Idzik and Rex IMO should be squarely on the hot seat! I understand having a plan, but this guy is hoping for too much from the NFL Draft.

  6. Been reading your articles for awhile now and just want to let you guys know it’s the best jet content out there! I think its ridiculous how so many fans are annoyed and blaming idzik 9 days into free agency. I am extremely excited for the future of the jets. Once again great article Cole. Like you said, how long has it been since we as jets fans have heard a GM talk about sutainable success and having money for the future? We are going to need a ton of cap space in the future to retain our nucleus of young players and there is still so many things that can happen to improve our roster before the draft. I can’t wait until the season starts and everyone starts saying what a great job Idzik has done, pretending that they weren’t bashing him in the first 10 days of free agency. Patience Jet fans everything is going to be alright, the NY Jets have a bright future!

  7. I understand not wanting to tie up money in bad, long term contracts. Cro only signed for a 1 year deal and considering he loved playing in NY and is far better then anything left out there, why wouldn’t Idzik sign him to a 1 year deal? Who does he expect to trade for without giving draft picks away? Just don’t get it!

  8. Peter. Who knows Cro better than the Jets. Obviously they feel his play deteriorated significantly last year and his hip may be a chronic issue. They basically had Ed Reed play deep in order to prevent receivers from consistently beating Cro long last year. Not sure that anyone they put in his place can play any worse then Cro did last year.

  9. The hypocrisy of some people knows no bounds. When some other teams take the same patient approach to free agency they are hailed as smart and shrewd. The Jets finally take the same approach and they are viewed as missing out and blowing free agency after a week. Let’s hope that Idzik ignores all the hypocrisy and sticks to his patient long term plan. There is no guarantee that it will work but the odds of it working are much greater than the free spending, draft pick trading ways of past Jet front office staff.

  10. Last year Cromartie played far worse than Wilson or Walls so why pay for someone worse than what you have?

  11. In the one sport where you can improve significantly in one year, great to see that we are looking to Walls, Wilson and Milliner to cover in Ryan’s defense that was already the weak link of the defense last year. There is nothing wrong in upgrading the talent on the team through free agency AND the draft, not just the draft.

  12. There is no problem improving through free agency except when the contract cost exceeds the player you are signing. Take the market for top cornerbacks: Shields gets resigned by the Packers, then Davis gets resigned at the last minute by the Colts (they overpay for a corner who flashed talent but finally put everything together only this last year and he could not finish that year healthy), Verner goes to the Bucs (so that he can play a lot in zone coverage), Talib to the Broncos (fair deal, but too long considering he has ended the past two seasons on IR), Revis to the (desperate) Pats (they know a corner is not worth that much, which is why they choose to rent Revis for a year), Munnerlyn to the Vikings (good corner and fair deal, but he mostly played the slot), DRC to the Giants (who dish out $7mm/yr for five years to a corner that visibly gave up when playing for their rivals just two years ago), and Cromartie to the Cards (any news about his contract numbers?). The cornerbacks that were the best fit for what we needed were Davis, Talib, Revis, DRC, and Cromartie. The big question with Cromartie is his hip; Davis, Revis, and DRC all got paid beyond what they are guaranteed to bring to the field; only Talib got a fair contract, though he is unlikely to finish it.

    Simply put, there was a run on cornerbacks this year (probably because of the weak draft class at the position) and the market quickly became too high to tie to the team for 2015 and the years after that. Teams with closing windows paid top dollar to try and fix holes and make a last run before the lean years. That is why I am glad the Jets did not join in and did not increase their offers to match the market: I would rather have no player than a player we regret signing.

  13. Honestly, if we can sign Vick for a cheap 1 or 2 year deal, and get D-Jax for a 3rd I would consider the offseason a huge success. With Decker and Jackson we would arguably be getting the 2 best offensive acquisitions of the offseason and 2 of the top 5 or so available players overall.

    Missing out on Revis or DRC will always hurt because of what the offseason could have been, but turning this offense around without blowing the bank in 1 off season is an awesome start.

    Before:

    QB-Geno
    RB-Powell
    FB-Bohannan
    WR1-Kerley
    WR2-Nelson
    WR3-Gates
    TE-Cumberland

    After

    QB-Geno
    RB-Ivory
    WR1-Jackson
    WR2-Decker
    WR3-Kerley
    TE1-Ebron/Amaro
    TE2-Cumberland

    That’s a massive upgrade. We didn’t waste our money. We still have a gaping hole at CB1 and Safety, but honestly we’ve had that for 10 years.

  14. Your title says it all – It’s going to be a very long offseason and likely regular season as a result.

    And another day with torch and pitchfork references. More attempts at mind control I see. Pathetic. Very insecure editors.

    “Differing views will not be tolerated”.

    “The beatings will continue until morale improves”.

    For whoever said CB draft class is weak needs to brush up on the prospects. But the larger point against any rookie selected at CB and starting would be referenced to last year’s top prospect, Milliner, who was benched three times. This is what Jet fans will get to look forward to and the reason why teams went strong in offering market value and above to lock in the solid CB’s in FA this year. Tannenbaum would have gotten us one. Idzik doesn’t “get it” yet.

  15. Patience is a great approach, if it works. However, the idea that all great teams are built this way isn’t necessarily correct. The NFL is basically ‘dynasty proof’. The most consistent teams are ones with top level QBs. Just look at the last 12 SB winners: 9 different teams, and the 3 teams that have won 2 (NE, PIT, NYG) all have upper echelon QBs. I mean, look at how many times Belechick has traded down, to pick up more picks, in the recent future. He’s trying to build via the draft, but it’s not as though it’s yielded more Super Bowl wins. Brady covers up for a lot of his personnel errors. The NYJ don’t have that luxury. At this point, Geno (or any QB available) isn’t goint to be able to do that, so they should be looking at all avenues to improve the team, in my view.
    Yes, drafting is preferred because of how it helps you control longer term costs. But, with the new rookie contracts, players are essentially under team control for 5yrs, so by the time they get to FA, they are in their late 20s, and a better value determination can be made on them-so saving cap space to keep them isn’t as paramount as it once was. Free Agency allows the team to make value judgements based on performance, in the NFL. Not using FA simply limits a team’s ability to get better. Look at the Packers, they bascially never sign FAs (Peppers being an exception). Great, so they can go out and pay A Rogers $22mm/yr, make C Matthews the highest paid OLB and they can re-up with S Shields at $9mm/yr. Now, they make the playoffs, but are they really a championship team? So, is keeping that money to pay your own players, the players who aren’t getting you to a Super Bowl, top dollar the ‘right’ approach?

    One question for Kash: How can you make this statement? …Revis to the (desperate) Pats (they know a corner is not worth that much, which is why they choose to rent Revis for a year…

    First off, if winning your division every year, since…forever, makes you desperate, then sign me up for that. How do you know what the Pats/Belechick think? Not trying to be argumentative, just curious, do you have an ‘in’ with the team?

  16. I’d say you are a just a TOUCH dramatic there JX!

    You should go root for Oakland, they killed it in free agency to go from 4 wins to 6 wins and be in cap hell 2 years from now.

    THE BEATINGS CONTINUE!!!

  17. Hey Frank Antonelli,

    Go screw yourself!

    You think anyone who differs in opinion with you should be insulted in every way imaginable. Makes you look like frickin’ moron.

    And try explaining how missing on FA’s thru low-balling tactic will help “sustain” this team far into the future. Go ahead. I’d love to hear how this can work.
    Thank god an “adult” is in place? Good one.
    He’s the same adult that took a road trip instead of negotiating with the last remaining decent CB prospect in FA.
    Sounds like a rigid ideologue who can’t adapt to how things get done today.

  18. I was just having fun but making a point at the same time but you know Joe, I’m not the one headlining these dramatic messages on a daily basis so try taking a look in the mirror sometime.

    I don’t believe it’s an hysterical point of view to not be satisfied with the approach. But this is what YOU dramatically insinuate nearly by the hour. I see the same posts sprinkled in by you warning to everyone that they should not be so judgmental and should be more like you.
    And it’s not a matter of waiting for better or cheaper players. The better players are gone. The Jets are mainly signing former Jets that no one else wanted and you all are trying to tie a bow around it. Let’s throw a party when they sign Vlad today! Yippee.

  19. Zeb,

    That’s a great post. And look at the most aggressive teams in FA – Denver, NE, Seattle, NY Giants…these aren’t losing teams. I love how these high-brows are trying to pontificate that we should just sit back and wait for the right player at the right price. The top teams didn’t subscribe to this. The market was top heavy and deep at CB and they all got one (or two).
    The Jets totally missed out.

    But these same high-brows will dishonestly only point out teams like Cleveland and Oakland to advance their agenda and affirm their stance. SShhh, don’t mention NE, DEN and SEA….maybe they won’t notice.

    Bottom line is you need to acquire talent if you hope to win in this league. And that talent should not be every expensive FA you can find but instead to get valuable players that allow you to be strong where you need to be.
    For Rex, he NEEDS to have two strong CB’s to run his defense and keep pass-happy teams off the field and allow his running game to bludgeon these same teams into submission as we witnessed in the Super Bowl with Seattle physically whipping the finesse Broncos.

    Further, there is no ONE way to approach the building of a team. The Steelers are in cap hell and have been for years and haven’t been drafting well and can’t straighten out their OLine while their secondary grows long-in-the-tooth preventing them from going very far. Not built well at the moment.
    Belichik traded back and acquired a ton of 2nd rounders who all busted.
    Some ways work, some don’t.
    We’ll see how Idzik continues.

    But to your point, there’s no single blueprint for success although many here seem to think they know what it is – if it involves passing on the best players, then I can’t agree.

  20. Are the folks melting in these threads trolls or victims of the ESPN/NYDN daily trolling?

    Personally, I love Idzik’s approach. As the team has a young nucleus (assuming Geno works out, otherwise they have a young nucleus on defense), it is obvious Idzik is building for long-term success, not 2 trips to the AFC championship followed by a couple years of rebuilding.

  21. Zeb,

    Kash is a passionate fan and has some interesting ideas. However, engage him at your own peril. A lot of his writing, IMO, is based on his belief that he understands ‘the human condition’ better than most. I like to call these thoughts ‘Kashims’. Mind you, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I just find Kash rarely can back up his thoughts with factual/statistical reinforcment. So, once you understand that, you will have a better idea of what you can debate, or more what is useless debating, with him.

    JX

    I work with a lot of smart guys (think ‘wicked smaat, like in Good Will Hunting). In a business that moves fast, forcing people to make quick decisions, I find very smart, methodical people often suffer from ‘the paralysis of analysis’. I don’t know Idzik. I don’t sit in the Jet offices and see what he’s doing or not doing, but I do know that sometimes being deliberate and methodical can lead to missed opportunities, just as much as it can lead to rash decisions. We just have to wait and see how this plays out.

  22. John X. Nice comment clown. Anyone who says:

    Tannenbaum would have gotten us one. Idzik doesn’t “get it” yet.

    is an idiot!!! Yea let’s go back to the Tanny days because he was so smart bringing in Tebow! You’re a completely clueless clown.

  23. Jermiah,

    Without a top level QB, isn’t the NFL really a year to year league? If you’re a NYJ fan, and haven’t been to a Super Bowl since 1969, I don’t understand how you can look at the 2009-10 period as being ‘fun’ for the fans. Yes, we had 2 down years following that, but so has Pittsburgh, one of the teams we played, that was more built via the draft.

    All that matters folks is results. You know what I really want? I want a front office to be right more than wrong. If you’re right more than wrong, in both the draft and FA, the team will be successful. This idea that Idzik’s plan is right, without really knowing how good his drafts will be, is just as much a wing and a prayer as signing any FA, no?

  24. Jeremiah,

    What exactly do you LOVE about his approach? That he can’t sign a player? That he is unable to negotiate?

    His approach has been to pursue FA’s. He just can’t sign them. What in god’s name is there to like about that?

    This is amazing?

    How can you LOVE his approach? What has he done? I can understand this if he were to sign a bunch of cap casualties once the market has been picked over and no one has money but that hasn’t happened yet not will it. Not many cap casualties expected to happen between now and the season.

    No one can justify their stance here.

  25. Lidman,

    If all that matters are results why is everyone melting so hard? We don’t know what the results for 2014 will be.

    Also, didnt you say you were leaving this site after melting down in the comment section of another article?

  26. John X, did you read my comment? I stated why I loved his approach.

    Step up your trolling, brah

  27. You’re the frickin’ idiot Frank!
    What an ass-clown extraordinaire who pulls Tebow out of his ass to appear smart. Nice try, genius.

    And if you don’t believe Tanny would have singed a CB, you’re smokin on another planet. He was the best closer in the business, bar no one.

    Kudos to the most incoherent, mind-numbing idiot to grace this site. Three cheers to Sir AC (Ass Clown) Antonelli. Hooraayy!!!

  28. Lidman. You are confusing final results with having the correct plan. Idzik’s philosophy has proven to be successfully implemented by many teams in this league. Whether he makes all the right moves in implementing the plan does not negate the fact that the plan/philosophy itself is sound. This may be a subtle but very important distinction. Hopefully Idzik is successful but even if he isn’t the approach is a sound one. The Jets have normally had a dysfunctional front office which always reacted emotionally to situations like Tebow and got badly burned.

    P.S. It is significant that Bill Polian supports John’s approach. Whether his moves pan out is different from having a sound approach.

  29. John X. Anyone who supports Tanny is a complete ass clown. There is no use trying to converse with you. You are dead to me.

    P.S. I’m sure you’ll respond in true troll fashion.

  30. Frank,

    I see your point. I respectfully disagree, and here is why: the NFL is a results oriented business. Just look at the turnover rate of head coaches and GMs. Bill Polian had success in Buffalo (Jim Kelly) and Indy (Peyton Manning). What happened in Carolina? I mean it was amazing that the team went to the NFC Championship game in it’s second season, but how did they do that? Look at what he did in FA that year, when he had a ton of cap space:
    QB Steve Beuerlein Jacksonville
    LB Duane Bickett Seattle
    CB Eric Davis San Francisco
    LB Kevin Greene Pittsburgh
    T Greg Skrepenak Oakland
    TE Wesley Walls New Orleans

    The league is changing. The rookie wage scale, doesn’t allow any extentions, hence hold outs, until after a players 3rd year. Even then, they have little leverage until after their 5th season. Therefore, there is more money available for veteran players, and that will only increase as the cap goes up. I think any front office guy would tell you that building a roster, via the draft, is the more preferred way. However, it’s not the only way.

    BTW, I wasn’t for the Tebow move, but a lot of good GMs make big mistakes. It’s a people business. In the end, that NYJ team wasn’t that talented. Tebow cost them a 5th round pick and $3mm. That’s not why that team didn’t finish better. I had no issue with the NYJ replacing Mikey T, but having been a toddler the last time the team went to a Super Bowl game, I very much enjoyed the 2yr run, they had. I think you’re too harsh on the guy, but it’s only an opinion.

  31. John X,

    I think your problem is that you’re making incredibly ridiculous assumptions about how business was done without actually knowing a damn thing.

    1. You automatically assume that any FA we offered the same contract to as the other teams was going to come here. FYI, this isn’t a video game or fantasy football. Did you ever think maybe those players don’t want to play for the Jets? Maybe they did not want to play in a huge market like NY where everything is scrutinized and they could end up on the wrong end of the media? Stop saying Idzik couldn’t close a deal or doesn’t know how to negotiate when you have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. It’s a two way street, pal. So if I have to sit through another insufferable post about how everyone doesn’t know what the blueprint to winning is and Idzik doesn’t get “it”, I’ll cry out of pure pity at your pathetic sky-is-falling-get-me-to-my-doomsday-bunker mentality.

    2. Why do you continue to assume Idzik is “lowballing” players? Because he placed a value on them and didn’t surpass it? The idea of a budget must be foreign to you. So if you were to go buy a car, do you immediately walk into a dealership and agree to pay $60,000 for a $40,000 car without inspecting it and giving it a test drive? Do you do this when you know you can only spend $40,000 max on a car because you have other expenses to take care of? No, you don’t unless you’re a complete idiot. If you do, you will not be able to afford everything and will have to lose something that maybe you couldn’t afford to lose. Idzik is disciplined and on a budget. He, along with his staff, assign a value to a player and don’t go beyond that value. For people like me, that’s common sense economics 101. If you long for the days of free-wheeling Tannenbaum then you are hopeless and obviously uninformed:

    3. In fact, lets go back and look at what Tannenbaum did when he started out as GM:

    http://turnonthejets.com/2012/03/mike-tannenbaums-career-as-new-york-jets-gm-part-1-the-mangini-years/

    Look at his first 2 years: who in God’s name are those no names that he signed in free agency? Do you see where he did all of his damage? THE DRAFT AND THROUGH TRADE. He didn’t sign any significant amount of impact players until 2008, his THIRD YEAR as GM. Oh and he made the Playoffs only once in his first 3 years- his first year where he inherited a decent roster from Bradway- and then didn’t make the playoffs again until 2009-2010. So tell me again why you prefer Tanny over Idzik when they had basically the same approach in the beginning of their GM career and I’d argue that Idzik walked into a much bigger mess than Tanny did. Also, don’t forget Tanny had been working for the Jets since 1997 as head of contract negotiations so he already knew exactly what he was working with and to some extent controlled what he was walking into as GM in 2006.

    So based on these facts, if you still think he’s a failure compared to Tannenbaum, you are a complete idiot. It took Tannenbaum 3 years to assemble his team to make a run at the SB. It took Seattle how long under Schneider/Carrol to win the SB? 4 years you say? And they made the playoffs only once in the previous 3 years (I don’t count 2010 because they got there by default when everyone else was so bad that a 7-9 team can win the division) Here’s an excerpt about John Schneider:

    The first three years of the Carroll/Schneider regime has impressed in Seattle. Schneider orchestrated a complete overhaul of Seattle’s roster. In 2010, Schneider completed 284 roster transactions.[3] On February 2, 2014, the Seahawks won Super Bowl XLVIII, their first championship in their existence. The championship roster contained only Max Unger, Red Bryant, Jon Ryan and Brandon Mebane who had been a Seahawk previous to Schneider’s arrival in Seattle. Schneider’s philosophy focuses on improving his team through every possible avenue. Examples follow:[4]

    The roster only had 4 players who were there before Schneider. Think about that.

    Now stop bitching.

    /end rant

  32. The purpose of this article was not to praise any one approach but to promote healthy, calm, and insightful discussion.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and deserves a level of respect. Please, refrain from name calling and accusations.

  33. Jeremiah,

    Thanks for not answering the question and refusing to cite reasons for such an approach and then conveniently distract by claiming that trolling is going on. Nice try…come back when you’re ready to eat at the big table. Here’s your exact words for your “approach” that I was supposed to read:

    Personally, I love Idzik’s approach. As the team has a young nucleus (assuming Geno works out, otherwise they have a young nucleus on defense), it is obvious Idzik is building for long-term success, not 2 trips to the AFC championship followed by a couple years of rebuilding.

    Another fraud.

  34. Cole,

    If that were the case then why do you reference pitchforks and torches? You’re doing everything you can to incite those who dare differ from your stance that everyone keep their mouths shut and be happy and understand a grand plan is in effect that no one can see.

  35. Lidman,

    I thank you for the color, regarding KAsh, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt (as I do not know him), and form my own opinion. I like that phrase ‘Kashim’ though.

    Womp Womp (that’s funny),

    I think you can argue either way. Idzik may be prudent in not spending for what he believes is something overpriced. He also might be misguaging a moving market, and what the market value of a player is-which is all that matters when it comes to acquiring FA. I actually think Lidman gave a decent view of this on another article. Schneider really owes the success Seattle has had to the draft value he’s found in the later rounds. His performance in picking 1st and 2nd rounders is average, at best. Earl Thomas is the only true great 1st rounder he’s picked. Bobby Wagner is a very good player also (picked with an originally owned NYJ draft pick). The later success has allowed him to add on FA like Bennett, Avril, Rice (a failure), Z Miller (a failure), Flynn (a failure) and Harvin (who is really a double whammy because they gave up a 1st rounder for him, and then had to sign him like a UFA). If Schneider doesn’t have those late round starting, Pro Bowl, players, his salary cap would have been killed, and his talent level depleted. However, he did have success, and give credit where it’s due. So, if you can tell me Idzik will be able to replicate that strategy, I’m on board. I just think that isn’t likely. If it were, in a copycat league, everyone would be doing it.

  36. I’ll try to type this slowly in hopes that it is less confusing for you John X.

    Im not sure why this needs to be explained at this point to someone who claims to be knowledgeable about the Jets, but it has been well documented that Idzik has a plan for making personnel decisions with an emphasis on value, depth, & building towards the future.

    http://turnonthejets.com/2013/05/new-york-jets-closer-the-idzik-plan/

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/jets/2013/05/19/jets-john-idzik/2325085/

    Furthermore, “building for long-term success, not 2 trips to the AFC championship followed by a couple years of rebuilding” should have been an obvious reference to Tanny’s spending money like a drunken sailor (no offense to drunken sailors intended) with the hopes that his salary cap “wizardry” would save the day.

  37. Womp Womp,

    I’m not allowed to speak because I don’t agree with you? You guys are amazing.

    I’ll answer your drawn out points:

    1. FA’s went to the Raiders, Clowns, Bucs and other bad teams. The players union insists that players take the best contracts available and teams such as the Seahawks, pats, broncos gave generous, market-value contracts to their FA’s. Look it up.

    2. There’s evidence that he has low-balled numerous prospects. And the fact that he can’t land anyone doesn’t lend credence that he’s overpaying, does it. Figure it out.

    3. I never said I want Tanny back but I sure miss him when the Jets are attempting negotiations with FA’s. Idzik’s out of his element there. Maybe he needs someone to assist him in this. And my point is true – Tanny would certainly have signed a top-end CB. I don’t think you argue that – and that’s all I was saying.

  38. Zeb,

    Great points but how does he “miss” on market value after the top 8 CB’s were signed? If he truly offered DRC a 1-year, 6M contract then he isn’t learning very fast if at all.

  39. John X,

    I welcome yours and anyone’s opinion, regardless of how it aligns with my own.

    Saying “put down your torch and pitchforks” is a plea for rationality and a step back from mob mentality. Please, express your opinions! That is the purpose of forums like these. That being said please refrain from doing so in a spiteful manner.

  40. What’s that well-documented plan JJ? To miss on nearly every FA prospect?

    Ha ha!!!! That’s a good one.

    Show me this plan. These are write-ups by others who surmise what his plan MIGHT be. Big difference, pal. Maybe you read too fast and skim over the details.

  41. Cole,

    Why is not liking the approach interpreted as holding pitchforks? I find that spiteful.

    You’re not even insinuating but STATING that those who don’t agree with this approach (of missing on many FA’s that they pursue) are akin to holding onto a mob mentality.
    You are demeaning the other side of the discussion that you pretend to encourage (lie) and in essence do NOT want candid opinions here. To me, this is very clear.

  42. JX,

    Like I sent this retort, to Kash, about how he ‘missed’ on value. Zeb, thanks for the shout out, generally I’m considered ‘a troll’ on this site by the crowd:

    Kash,

    My view is one individual, or in this case, one team is not right; ‘the market’ is always right. ‘The market’ determines value. So, Idzik might have his view of ‘value’, but the results (in this case what value guys like Cro, DRC, V Davis, A Howard, Nicks etc)illustrate he’s not in line with the market-he’s wrong. If your family needs milk, and you drive all over your town and the cheapest price you see is $3 gallon, then that’s the price, no matter how much you disagree. If you only want to pay $2 gallon, then your family is going without milk, or have to settle for water..tap water.

    Now, a year from now if DRC’s performance doesn’t live up to that number, Idzik will have proven to be shrewd, by not signing him, for a longer term, with a big guarantee (similar to 1st round draft picks being a ‘bust). However, that doesn’t change where ‘the market’ was for that specific service (in this case a ‘man cover CB’) at that time. My claims of JI not understanding the supply/demand curve are based on this premise. So, you telling me ‘That contract actually seems about right…’ is your view of value. Ok, you have the right to your opinion, and that opinion will force you settle for a cheaper alternative, like tap water.

  43. The jets are saving for a rainy day? This is all PR speak or they are making a trade. They have more than enough cap space to get a player or 2 and sign their draft picks and extend Mo and still have money left for that rainy day. Unless they really know something (and this team rarely does) about their CB position, i dont understand the waiting. The idea of the draft picks should be to take the best players that you can..not to Have to fill every hole (a few of which could have been filled via FA). The fans really expected to see a little more than this.

  44. JX,

    Just realized you read the response. Apologies to all for the double post.

    Jeremiah,

    JX and I have gone at it before, but I agree those are simply opinion pieces from others who have worked with Idzik. It certainly doesn’t illustrate anything we can point to suggesting he’s been succesful anywhere else.
    Based on last year’s draft (and it’s unfair to do that, but it’s all we have), does it look like he can use the draft to build a team? Richardson was great, he’s his Earl Thomas. However, no other player he drafted is even considered a definitive starter by his own team (maybe you could make the argument for Milliner). He used a 4th rounder on a RB, but then brought in another FA (Goodson) and his 5th/6th rounders never saw the field, so we don’t know what they are. Again, it’s not fair to only look at the one draft, I know, but when guys like Keenan Allen could have been had, over Brian Winters, it is fair to cite, I think.

  45. Zeb,

    Pretty sure everyone is trying to do it except they haven’t had the same success as Schneider. With the exception of course of the consistent bottom-dwellers(Oak, Cle, Jax, etc.) I don’t see many successful teams going out and signing 20 FAs to top dollar contracts and having success. I do see many teams drafting consistently and building successful franchises. Now that comes with a caveat that many of those teams have a very good-to-great QB they can use as a cornerstone. The jury is still out on Geno, so that’s yet to be decided. But still, free agency isn’t meant to be a shopping spree as some would like it to be. We aren’t assembling a Madden dream team that we can control on a screen.

    I understand the moving market mentality, but do you honestly see any really great signings for the money that we missed on? I liked the Byrd signing, but that’s a lot of guaranteed money and I don’t think he wanted to come here anyway. I liked the Verner signing but not in Rex’s scheme. The one signing I was a little upset about was Thurmond, thought it was great value and would’ve fit nicely here.

    John X,

    You’re not allowed to speak because you literally post gibberish every 5 minutes.

    1. I can tell this is you being emotionally scarred by the Pats getting Revis. The Broncos and Seahawks can make good market-value signings because players want to go to the two teams that were just in the SB and likely have a great shot of going back next year. You do understand some players want to win (especially those on consistently terrible teams or underperformers- TJ Ward/Demarcus Ware) and would take a good value contract to play for an excellent team. The Jets are not an excellent team, they’d have to offer more money than others to make these signings and at that point they’d be overpaying- just like Oak, Cle, and Jax overpay for everyone.

    2. Low-balled by whose estimation? Yours? Please show me this evidence since you are constantly asking for evidence from others, I’d like to see yours. Find me a quote from DRC or any other miss in FA that says the Jets offered too little.

    3. Oh I’m sorry, didn’t realize you were in his office when he was negotiating a contract with someone. Please tell me his negotiating tactics and what he’s doing wrong since you have witnessed it firsthand.

    You need to stop throwing out theories that make it seem like its public knowledge that John Idzik isn’t a savvy negotiator. We don’t know if he is.

    And through this post I’ve discovered your true problem. You can’t stand not knowing whats going on. You want to know the plan, you want to be on the inside. You think because you haven’t been told whats going on that it must be bad and they must be doing a poor job. Thats too bad that this front office is locked down. You can’t see behind the scenes. Womp womp :(

  46. Mattimar,

    You join a precious few who can’t understand what they are waiting for (Christmas?).
    To this point I’d guess it’s reasonable to guess they have missed the boat on starting CB’s and that they will need to address this position in the draft.
    I’m quite surprised that there have been zero links to any safeties. The last I heard on a WR was Sidney Rice. That was 4-5 days ago and only recent interest in DeSean Jackson since.

    We have no choice but to wait and see what else happens here.

  47. I guess you’ve got all the answers, Womp Womp. Ha ha!!!

    I hated Revis and his shark lawyers and stated so repeatedly here. You’re wrong at every turn and not worth my time in responding further.

  48. The USA Today article quoted Idzik’s former boss & I feel comfortable with his assessment of Idzik, tbh.

    Lidman, why would anyone care if you have disagreed with John X in the past? Also why do you judge Idzik if you feel the need to qualify it as unfair?

  49. I don’t have all the answers. Now say it with me John- I. DONT. HAVE. ALL. THE. ANSWERS.

    Feel better? Good.

    Just because you hated him and his lawyers doesn’t mean you didn’t want him. I flat hate him as well, but when the rumors swirled about him coming back, I couldn’t help but be a little excited.

    I like how you create continuous double standards though. It’s pretty impressive. You just told I’m wrong at every turn without any reasoning and then dismissed me. Pretty sure you get angry at Frank Antonelli and everyone else for doing the same thing to you. I responded to your post with multiple point that you had no response to so you come back with that? Come on man, you’re better than that. I expect more from you.

  50. I didn’t think you read my gibberish, WW. Seems like you’re obsessed with me.

    Answer me this:

    What is Idzik’s great plan?
    Is it to whiff on every top prospect CB?
    Is it to whiff on the only feasible TE prospect they chased?
    Is it to whiff on LaFell?
    Who else do I secretly like?
    Is it to wait until the market has dried up to scoop FA’s they didn’t feel compelled to extend?

    I’m listening because you have all the answers. Enlighten me, omniscient one.

    Give me the answers. What’s the matter, tongue-tied? Writer’s block?

    You state that we should follow Idzik’s plan yet you can’t even demonstrate it.

    You my friend, are a fraud. Nothing less.

  51. I read it to try to understand the inner-workings of the mind of a lunatic. I am unsuccessful to this point, but I will endeavor to persevere. I am obsessed with you. YOU GOT ME! Or maybe it’s the fact you post a steady stream of garbage so often that its unavoidable. Obsession sounds more accurate.

    1. His great plan is to build a sustainable, winning franchise.
    2. No, he hasn’t whiffed on any. Please show me all the contract offers people have turned down to come here that he desperately tried to sign.
    3. Really? He’s not that good and not worth the money he got.
    4. Is this a serious question? LaFell? Really?
    5. Tannenbaum. Oh wait, thats not a secret!
    6. Probably not. I’m thinking we’re looking at trade scenarios.

    Why are you impatiently demanding the answers in the same post that you’re posing the questions? You do know thats all one post, right? Oh I get it, you’re trying to mock me. Good one.

    I know the the basic layout of Idzik’s plan because that’s what he’s conveyed to us as fans. Do I know exactly who he’s targeting or who he’s going to draft or trade for? Absolutely not. Never claimed I knew either. I don’t think anyone knows except the men in that front office. And that brings me back to my point that you can’t stand not knowing. You NEED to know exactly what his next move is going to be. Like he should call you up and tell you, “Hey JX, I’m thinking about offering 6m/1yr to DRC and if he doesn’t take it I’m going to let him walk….What? I’m a damn fool? Call Tanny? Good idea. What should I do next?”
    Don’t you think if he revealed every detail of his plan it MIGHT be showing his hand just a little bit to the rest of the league? Face it, you’re not going to know whats happening until it happens. Thats how this front office is going to work. Feel free to criticize on what he does do, but you need to stop creating BS lies about what he “missed” on when you have no idea if he was ever even in on it. I know you think the Jets were in on every single FA, but that is just silly and far-fetched. Yeah I’m sure they researched a majority of them and did their due diligence, but they never seriously pursued 90% of them. I can appreciate you questioning not signing someone, but to start spewing the nonsense that he’s a failure as a GM after 2 weeks is a joke.

  52. “Nobody ‘whiffs’ on Brandpn LaFell. He’s Brandon Lafell”

    Comment of the day!!!

    Jermiah,

    You’re right. No need to qualify that. One question: Idzik has been with Seattle since 2004, so honestly can’t we paint him as being part of winning and losing teams? It’s very hard to judge a guy after 15, or so, months on the job. I’m only ‘marking him to market’. I’ve repeatedly said, he’s misjudging the supply/demand dynamic and market value. The NYJ have needs, a lot of those needs were fillable with good, in their prime players, who they either passed on, or were beaten out for. As far as the big guarantees, you refer to on Byrd, they aren’t as big as the press reports them. Many contracts are really only 1yr ‘fully guaranteed’. Overthecap.com does a great job sorting this out (for instance, Austin Howard’s contract is only fully guaranteed for the first year, at $7.9mm, while the media reports it as $15mm).

    Womp Womp

    To answer this:

    2. Low-balled by whose estimation? Yours? Please show me this evidence since you are constantly asking for evidence from others, I’d like to see yours. Find me a quote from DRC or any other miss in FA that says the Jets offered too little.

    Did you see Andrew Brandt’s column, in MMQB.com? Here is a section that might interest you:

    “New Jersey tug-of-war. In talking with sources on all sides of the negotiations, the Jets and Giants engaged in an interesting turf battle for the services of Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie.
    New Giant Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
    Rex Ryan excited Rodgers-Cromartie with a pitch to put the cornerback “on an island” and make him a star. The Giants offered him detailed plans for facing every team in the division, describing how they would use him against specific receivers on the Cowboys, Eagles and Redskins.

    Thus, as it always does, it came down to economics. The Giants’ deal, with a $10 million signing bonus and $16 million over the first two years, was superior. The Jets held to the structure of a one-year $6 million deal, with options going forward, until it became clear the Giants were closing in. Only then did the Jets present a different type of structure, with general manager John Idzik scrambling to make up ground while attending Teddy Bridgewater’s pro day. By then, however, it was too late; the Giants had won the intra-stadium battle.”

    Also, yesterday, Hakeem Nicks was one the Michael Kay show, and said the NYJ reached out to him. He got a $3.5mm, up to $5.5mm max 1yr deal. Sorry, I can’t see how this didn’t fit with the NYJ. There is no way of knowing who the NYJ have and haven’t spoken to. So, it’s easier for the folks who think Idzik is 100% right, in his approach, to simply say: “He hasn’t talked to xyz”, or “don’t believe what this writer is saying”, in regards who a team is talking to . But, if the Brandt piece is true, and Nicks isn’t lying, it suggests the team has spoken to more folks than we know, and yet they’ve lost as many starters, as they’ve added.

  53. Again, you don’t ‘have to spend to spend’, but they will have to spend, under the terms of the new CBA. With their cap space and the rising cap, they will have no problem signing their own players, many of which are 3+yrs away from even having to dealt with. This team could be putting itself in position to ‘have to overpay’ players in the next 2 seasons, and for those who hate Tannenbaum, that can’t be seen as positive, right?

  54. Lidman,

    Are you aware NFL Free Agency is not actually a free market & that attempting to analyze it via supply/demand curves is insufficient & inaccurate?

    Are you suggesting the Jets should have signed Austin Howard to a mega-deal & then cut him the next year? Signing a player of similar ability for half the price provides **value** & **long term consistency (i.e. building towards the future)** & allows for additional **depth**, whereas your suggestion is a great example of Tanny-style spending like a drunken sailor with the expectation that cap “wizardry” will solve future problems.

  55. Lidman.

    I appreciate you answering for JX. I actually find most of your posts pretty detailed even If I don’t agree. My responses:

    1. DRC: Interesting take, didn’t see that one. But that doesn’t really show Idzik lowballing anyone. DRC took 1mm more per year, but he got more guarantees and longer term. Idzik didn’t lowball him, he just didn’t offer the TYPE of contract DRC wanted.

    2. To the Nicks point, I just don’t think the Jets wanted him. I understand he’s talented and produced. But he does that when he WANTS to do it and when he’s not injured. Plus he went to a team more suited for his skillset and position in his career. Luck is a more proven commodity than Geno and the Colts are a team ready to take that next step. Jets are probably a year behind the Colts in that case and signing with them wouldn’t make his career advance or put him in position for a payday, especially if he was splitting receptions with Decker. Just doesn’t seem to make sense for either side.

    To the cap rising point, I don’t understand the assumptions the cap will definitely continue to rise. It last had a major rise what, 6 years ago? And then it flatlined essentially until this year. You have to operate assuming the current conditions will stay the same in the future. Any rise in the cap would then be more of an advantage cause you had planned to work on a smaller budget.

  56. Womp Womp,

    I gave a very verbose, but detailed, picture of the cap, and why I’m fairly confident it will rise consistently in the next 5-10 years. If you’re interested it’s on the ‘Eight Days of Yelling’ post that Joe Cap put out on 3/19 (my response is 12:05 on 3/20, and then another about an hour later, in a back and forth with Kash). To respond to your points:

    1-we all have our own views, but to me it suggests Idzik did want him, low balled him with a 1yr offer, and then was scrambling to try and make another offer (but who knows, I can’t verify). What it does tell me is he penny pinched, for a position of need.

    2-Know way of know if the NYJ did or didn’t want him. I’m just saying he lives here, and I think $5.5mm bucks is cheap for a front line WR, even one coming off a bad year (which would have been tops on the NYJ). On top of this, if fans are concerned about him ‘wanting’ to produce. With that, why would any fan want them to trade for Desean Jackson, who complained about his contract after 2010, played disgruntled in 2011, and saw it affect his play, then get a big contract extension/guarantee in 2012, and now after a career year in 2013, complain, again, about his contract? Mind you, I am one who believed the NYJ whiffed, and whiffed big, by not bringing Revis back. I point this out only to illustrate that I don’t care if these guys hold out, and want to get the max money they can (because once they get to a certain age, or their play comes off at all they get cut). However, unlike Revis, who gave it his all every time he was on the field, Jackson mailed it in. I think Nicks, would have been a good risk/reward at that price. Guys go where the $ is. They have to maximize the short careers as best they can.

  57. I just read the comments after eighteen hours and this made for a great laugh. I also think a little (but important) part of Joe died today after he read through all the personal attacks, threw up his hands, said “F it!”, and gave up trying to stop them. (Keep at it, Joe! Principles are important.)

    @Zeb

    No, I do not have an “in” with the Patriots. No, I cannot read minds. I just remember (or I think I remember) that the Pats GM basically stated he would never pay $12 million for a corner last year during the same mandatory media event that they are having right now (or at least the one where all the teams’ higher ups gather each spring). I am also too lazy to go and dig up this article to confirm it; if I looked up and cited every reference I remember, I would never leave my computer. Everyone else in my family wears glasses, so I am already worried about deteriorating eyesight as it is.

    I also do not think I have some great insight into the human condition. Most people never try to hide what they are thinking. If these hints did not exist, actors would not have a job. I do not think anyone thinks actors have great insight into the human condition, but they are able to tap the whole spectrum of human motivations and thoughts. When a team does something one year which they said they would never do a year ago, some people assume they are diabolical masterminds and others assume that by Ockham’s razor that they got pressured into something unsavory. The former group is the conspiracy theorists. We had one team do what it did not want to, and like a kid forced to eat something yucky, they mitigated the pain with a one-year contract (they could have gone for two or three years, at least) and made the player extremely tradeable (low cap hit midseason in case they are out of the playoff hunt early).

    @Lidman

    “My view is one individual, or in this case, one team is not right; ‘the market’ is always right. ‘The market’ determines value. So, Idzik might have his view of ‘value’, but the results (in this case what value guys like Cro, DRC, V Davis, A Howard, Nicks etc)illustrate he’s not in line with the market-he’s wrong.”

    But one individual – Jerry Reese – decided DRC’s contract. Why is Idzik the one who is wrong? If Hickey from the Dolphins stepped in and offered DRC $40 million per year would he still be right? Or would we be all sitting here going “LOL Fins!!!”?

    Free agency is not a market. There is no supply that increases or decreases with a change in the price. No additional products will be produced regardless of the cost. The products are all unique, not ubiquitous or interchangeable. Free agency is an auction. Take a used car auction: there even two cars of the same year, make, and model could vary a lot in price. No one ever gives a bidder grief over not bidding on a car. Unless he must buy something, no one ever complains that a bidder leaves the auction without buying a single thing or that he sticks tightly to his evaluation. And if he runs a business and has rivals, he can win without buying a single thing if he forces everyone else to overpay, especially if he himself does not and leaves the auction with a few diamonds in the rough.

  58. Whatever we say, Idzik will run the team his way. It’s too early to even judge last year’s draft, much less the long term success of Idzik’s approach. If Geno and Dee Milliner take a big next step and become stars, then last year’s draft will go down as one of our best of all time–but only time will tell. If this years’s team (which will look a lot different than the present roster) wins 10 games, I’ll be pretty happy. If we make the playoffs, I’ll be ecstatic. But we’re going to need to watch this play out over the next three or four years to really know if Idzik is “Da Man” or just a bit delusional.

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