New York Jets – Put Away The Pitchforks, The Jury Is Still Out


Throughout the off-season, the New York Jets began the process of rebuilding their roster. This was a needed process considering their salary cap and roster situation after the 2012 season. Expectations for this year were tempered or at least should have been tempered. The Jets didn’t have the makings of the league’s worst team but even an optimist should have seen the ceiling for this team as hovering around .500 and playing relevant December games.

Everybody embraces the rebuild until there are rough patches. When you start rookies, particularly mid-round rookies, they are going to struggle at times. There are going to be ugly games. This issue is going to be compounded when a huge chunk of your offense is comprised of street free agents, and your team suffers injuries to key veterans.

Brian Winters was awful against Buffalo. It was the 6th career start for a 3rd round player, after he missed nearly all of training camp. Of course there are going to be games like Sunday. What are you going to do, bench him for Vlad Ducasse? We have 3.5 seasons of evidence that Ducasse isn’t a starting caliber NFL player and he isn’t going to be on the team in 2014. If you weren’t screaming for Winters to be benched after the Saints game, don’t scream for him to benched after the Bills game. You let Winters take his lumps, see if he can bounce-back and make sure you have enough of a body of work to decide if he could be a starter for you in 2014.

Keep this in mind: the Jets are on a ONE game losing streak and people are screaming for wholesale changes, most prominently at the quarterback position. This team is 5-5 and currently the 6th seed in the AFC and you want to hand the team to a UDFA quarterback who has never taken a relevant NFL snap in his career?

Geno Smith is in a slump right now. He played well in a week 7 victory over the New England Patriots…that was less than a month ago. If you watch that game tape, against the Jets most consistently important opponent, and you are saying right now with 100% certainty things like “Smith doesn’t have IT” and “there is no way he can ever be the guy”….you aren’t living in reality. Either that or you should immediately find a front office job in the NFL since you have such omnipresent foresight.

Smith’s 2nd half against Tampa Bay, first three quarters against New England in week 2, week 3 game against Buffalo, week 5 game against Atlanta, week 7 game against New England and even avoiding any turnovers in a week 9 win against New Orleans is a big enough body of encouraging work for him to maintain this job. It is CERTAINLY more encouraging and shows more than Matt Simms did completing passes in a 4th pre-season game and in garbage time against a prevent defense.

Smith bombed against Cincinnati and Buffalo last week, just like most of his team around him. Did you see the Jets secondary and offensive line against the Bengals and Bills? They were equally as awful, if not more awful than Smith. People forget the Jets were down 28-6 before any Smith interceptions in Cincinnati thanks to Marvin Jones dominating the Jets secondary. People forget the Jets defense allowed a rookie QB to go 20/28 with 2 TDs without his top two receivers, while forcing no turnovers and creating one sack last Sunday.

Let’s not fall into being a Smith apologist. He has played poorly the past three games, without question. He hasn’t proven himself to be the 2014 guy yet…not even close. However, any proclamations that definitively state what Smith can or cannot be, are unfounded. The jury is still out and should remain out. People who demand Smith be benched immediately conveniently forget the positive moments through the Jets first ten games.


You can shout about all the grit and intangibles Simms has shown in pre-season (although I remain convinced if his last name was Smith and not Simms there’d be less clamoring among fans to play him). There is no logic in trotting him out for a first career start on the road against the defending Super Bowl champs this Sunday. You don’t throw in the towel on a quarterback after ten games, you don’t hand off a .500 team currently in the playoffs to somebody with no NFL experience. If Smith bombs out the next few games in spectacular fashion, then maybe you have this discussion….not after a ONE game losing streak.

Remember last year when everybody demanded Tim Tebow and Greg McElroy? Just about everything being said about Simms right now was said about McElroy last year. He started. Bombed out. Got hurt and is currently a practice squad player. Tebow? You know that story. Remember when everybody demanded Kellen Clemens? Brett Ratliff? Even Geno Smith was in demand a couple of months ago….it is always the next guy who is the inevitable savior or hero.

Smith is far from hopeless as a prospect. Will he bounce back from this recent slump? We’ll find out in these next few games. This Jets team is filled with question marks and players auditioning for a prominent role in 2014 and Smith is one of them. If Simms is that special, he’ll get plenty of work in training camp next summer and win himself the starting job then. Yet, I am guessing everybody who is hollering for Simms now wouldn’t be content if the Jets just let him and Geno compete next summer. Why not? If Simms is that talented, he should easily win the job and the Jets don’t need to waste another high pick on a quarterback or trade for somebody like Jay Cutler.

The Jets are a young team that worked with limited resources this previous off-season. Their lack of cap space prevented them from coming anywhere near filling all their holes. Next season, with 30-40 million in cap space and 12 draft picks, they’ll be able to aggressively attack their weaknesses. A little less patience next season will be more understandable, but for now? Put away the pitchforks after a one game losing streak.

  • Jude

    It’s not about a ‘one game losing streak’. It’s about the very concerning fact that, coming off a bye, the entire team looked very uninspired and let a rookie QB make them look foolish. It is about Geno having 16 completions in two games. It is about Geno having a 1:2 TD to INT ratio. It is about Geno Smith turning the ball over 4 times inside his own 30 after getting hit. QB’s get hit. That’s no reason to turn the ball over like candy. Can you say that, since the New England game, there has been any sense of improvement?

    It’s going to be very hard to imagine a scenario in where he goes to M&T Bank Stadium (against a desperate defense) and not turn the ball over. Turning the ball over to an UDFA who has looked relatively good in preseason and seemed to demonstrate a relatively good grasp of the QB position is not a bad idea. What if Geno plays the team out of the playoffs, Matt Simms comes in meaningless game, and he does well? Everyone will be screaming about why we didn’t put Simms in sooner and blah blah blah. And if he isn’t good, he isn’t good and we have a clear mind.

    Geno SHOULD start next week, but he should be on a short leash in a must win game.

    As an aside, it is cognitively dissonant to balk at the idea of turning the ball over to a UDFA due to playoff chase even though the rookie is potentially playing us out of the playoffs. We shall see in the end.

  • Joshjamestom

    Geno is not a an NFL caliber starting QB. He is playing like a guy that does not belong in the league. He cannot handle aggressive defenses. He cannot handle teams that blitz up the middle. He fails to feel the heat off the edges. He should not have started this year because on a rebuilding year you start the guy with no turnovers if you are having a real competition, which the Jets didn’t. The QB that played the best this summer was Simms. That’s not conjecture, that’s a fact. Finally, Geno, like Sanchez, is a mental midget when it comes to the game of football. He is not instinctual with the ball. He loves the game,but will never be good at it. You are a homer who is wishing and praying for Geno to be something he isn’t, which is a good NFL QB. The jets must continue to search for their QB and stop being obsessed with guys that are not intelligent with the football even if they athletically are competent.

  • Jim G

    This article was NOTHING BUT a Smith apologist piece. Cherry picking certain “decent” performances really doesn’t prove anything. We have seen far more “Bad Geno” than “Good Geno” this season. There were times in this last game where it looked like it was Geno’s first time ever playing the game of football.

    We get it. You guys hate Simms and he sucks because he wasn’t drafted in the 2nd round. We all know that only high round draft picks can succeed in the league, and all UFDA’s suck because well…. They weren’t drafted!

    I’m not calling for Simms to replace Geno now. I think that Geno’s continued suckage will mathematically have the Jets eliminated from playoff contention soon enough. Once that happens, then it will be the right time to give Simms a go to see what he’s got in him. And if he displays similar Geno type suckage, then at least we know that the position of QB should get primary consideration in next years draft.

  • Steve


    We need to look At Seattle. That’s what Idzik is. This 1st year is a year to get a feel for the talent, fix the cap, rock another draft and FA and make a lot of personel changes to shape the team for long term success…

    Holmes and Cro will probably be gone… I think Miliner will be great with an offseason and Geno is going to work his ass off..

    But, Regardless of what Geno does to finish the year, Idzik WILL bring in QB competition. Just depends when are where he sees a fit / value.

    Seattle spent 10 million on Flynn and tried a few QB’s before they found Wilson..We’re a good step ahead of a QB locked in at 10 mill….
    Seattle is now in year 4 of their rebuild.. NYJ Year: YEAR ONE.
    Seattle strung good drafts together got good FA deals, found a QB and are near the top…

    I’m the biggest Geno fan I know BUT, ppl are focusing on the wrong things…. This is a Rebuild.. Idzik doesn’t care what you, Manish, Cimini or anyone says.. he’s got a plan. He’s going to reload with a TE/WR and OL help for whoever can win the QB job next year and rock Year 2 of REBUILD – at the very least in year 2 his goal should be to Judge QB play that isn’t compromised by lack of weapons and protection – The only fair way to do it!!!!!!

    It’s not about squeeking into the playoffs this year, it’s about building a Power… Like Pete Carrol said after year 1, the record wasn’t going to change their plan.. They had holes, cap issues and a path to fix and reload.

    Just enjoy it.

  • Joe Caporoso

    JoshJameston you should immediately apply for a NFL job with such a profound ability to declare so much about a player after 10 games. “He loves the game, but will never be good at it…he is a mental midget” …Scratch that, maybe a psychology job? Impressive personality analysis of a man you never met in your life

  • Nep Oznat

    “There is no logic in trotting him out for a first career start on the road against the defending Super Bowl champs this Sunday. You don’t throw in the towel on a quarterback after ten games.”

    Ok. So when DO you throw in the towel, if not after 10 games? After elimination from the playoffs? Or not even then?

    You sound as if you’re saying that the important thing is that Geno gets the full 16 games as a starter no matter what and we’ll worry about whether Simms is any good only next year.

    Maybe I mis-read you but if Geno cannot get us to the playoffs would you still stick with him? The team needs to have an answer for that by the end of the Baltimore game (if not sooner) because time is running out.

    And you’re saying if Simms name was Smith no one would be clamoring for him. I’d like to turn that around and ask “Assuming the they both had shown what they have shown so far, and if Geno was not Idzik’s draft pick but Simms was, who do you think would be playing this week?

  • Sam

    There is a lot of hostility in these comments. I agree we shouldn’t give up on Smith yet. It’s only 10 games. It took 4 years for Tennebaum, Rex, and company to give up on the sanchize. I think a lot of fans are calling for Geno’s head because of the turnovers and that brings up bad memories of Sanchez. Admittedly I like Simms because he seems like he has a good work ethic but Geno has much more upside. Look at his college stats. He was awesome. He was considered a potential number one overall pick. He has all the athletic abortive and he is smart. He’s had bad games but so has the entire team. People are hoping for the playoffs this year, Super Bowl this year when that is an extreme longshot. It’s possible, the I believe the defense (when the corners are good) can keep the team competitive with anyone. See New Orleans, New England. But, the consistency isn’t there yet. There are wholes that wouldn’t be able to stay hidden for the entire playoffs. Basically my point is the team shouldn’t go all out for a playoff run this year. It’s about being consistently one of the best in the years to come.

  • Sam

    Lol I meant athletic ability not athletic abortive in my comment. I guess that’s what happens when you post from your phone and not the Internet. Turn on the Jets should really make an app btw.

  • KAsh

    I really do not know where to start.

    Brian Winters was awful in Buffalo, had some bad breakdowns, looked like a rookie. This is the first time I have ever heard somebody saying to bench him, even jokingly. The reason is that he does not look like he does not belong on the field. He does not have Duccassian mistakes where he never even reacts to the guy he should be blocking. And his worst play is not below the level a rookie should be at. No expected Brian Winters to be a Pro Bowl left guard his first year out of college.

    But Smith is not playing at Winters’s level. When it has been bad, it is all bad. I would be all for Smith if there was a nugget of good that he showed in Buffalo. But the last nugget of good we saw was against the Steelers, when Geno went out on the field and completed some passes after throwing a pick-six. That showed mental toughness, but it is a trait we have not seen since.

    We have not seen a touchdown completion since the second New England game on 10/20. Funny stat, but in the four games he played since the game on 10/20, Mike Glennon has six touchdown completions and one interception. The Bucs’s third-round pick has played three games less than Geno, but has three more touchdowns and twelve less interceptions; Glennon has yet to have a game without a touchdown and has thrown multiple interceptions in only one – his first.

    I have watched Glennon play two games – the Thursday game against Carolina and the Monday game against Miami, statistically his two worst performances after his first start against the Cardinals – and he looks like a rookie. He does not have great pocket awareness, he gets rattled by pressure, and he misses open receivers. But he is willing to rely on his arm and his reads. I want to take the easy path and say he makes good decisions, but that is not true; the decisions he makes are confident ones. He does not try to not lose the game, but rather tries to win it. He is a rookie, but he is a competent rookie.

    With Geno, you are grabbing at straws to try and find some good. “2nd half against Tampa Bay, first three quarters against New England in week 2” – so he’s not in it for the full game and we are supposed to be happy with that? Actually, these two examples illustrate the two problems with most of what is said to prop up Smith. Against Tampa, Smith threw short passes for minimal gains, the motto being “be safe rather than win.” Tampa is an outlier in that Smith’s passes were the main part of the game plan, but it is a good demonstration of Smith as game manager, which we would see in weeks 6-9, week 8 bucking the trend slightly because we were getting bombed out, so Smith’s throws gained a little importance. Against New England, Smith had a late-game meltdown, just as he did in week 4 and week 8 and week 11. But that is what we do with Smith: we praise him for being a game manager, not losing us games, and ignore bad thoughts when he cannot do even that. We pull out a game against New Orleans, in which Smith’s only contribution was a three-yard touchdown run, and say that it is so great that he never turned the ball over, though he did next to nothing offensively to turn the ball over in the first place.

    You are trying to have it both ways. Two weeks ago, you were discussing playoffs and how the team can win now. Yet, after a single loss, you are pulling the rebuild card. No one was thinking rebuild when you signed Ed Reed last week or were hoping every other team in AFC wildcard contention loses. But that is because the notion of a rebuild and playing to be in contention for 2014 is bunk. Your team is competitive. Your team has most of the pieces a Super Bowl contender would want. But it is saddled with a rookie quarterback that looks like a fish out of water. So as to not make difficult decisions, when discussing the team, especially after a win, you use “playoffs,” but when discussing your struggling rookie QB, you use “rebuild.”

    You turn into an apologist when your arguments avoid actual analysis of Smith’s playing in favor of pleas for patience and nonsensical jabs at Simms. I know, the analysis of Smith’s playing is bleak – good arm (great arm?) but struggles mentally making decisions, which leads to poor throws, bad throws, and (possibly?) off-target throws; athletic and can run with the ball, but seems to lack the moxie to rely on this aspect of his game; struggles with reads and with pressure – but the argument for starting him must come from it. Taking shots at Simms makes you look petty.

    I doubt fans care about Simms’s last name. People would be calling for him to start even if he was a Tebow. In what little time he has played, Simms has shown decisiveness and some understanding of how the play should develop. He has the only touchdown completion on the team in the last month, and he was very close to having two TDs against the Bills, be it in garbage time or whatnot. When Geno started throwing picks, I changed the channel, but changed back to watch Simms and would like to see more.

    Every time a starting quarterback gets benched in favor of his backup, the situation is different. Calls for Clemens were silly as Pennington was clearly the superior option at that point in time. Everybody except Tebow fans knew that he could not play. McElroy would have probably finished out the year for Sanchez, if he had not gotten hurt. So, in the short history of the Jets, we had McElroy, who could not have played any worse than Sanchez at that point in time, Tebow, who could not play and was rightfully passed over, and Clemens, who was an escape valve for a fan base repeatedly frustrated over the years by Pennington. In the two cases where the backup became the starter, the results did not drastically diminish. Smith’s main job has been to hand the ball off anyway, so replacing Smith, a rookie with 10 games experience (in which he had two good games), with Simms, a second-year UDFA, cannot hurt the Jets all that much.

    2013 is not an audition year for Smith. His problem is that his coaches are too good and have gotten the team out of the running for drafting a replacement. This is not Carolina, who drafted a second-round QB, bombed, and had the first pick of the draft. This is a team with a weak roster, which will be drafting considerably out of the range of the best QBs, and would ideally like to trade back, so as to have even more picks to have more talent to fill out the depth at all points on the roster. We cannot spend a high-draft pick on a new QB each year, especially since QBs need to sit in the first place, Mariota, Hundley, and every other QB short of Bridgewater not being exceptions to this rule. We are stuck with Geno for at least three years (the least amount of time needed to give an honest evaluation) but this does not mean that we must start him. You do not put a rookie out there if he is hurting the team, while not helping in any way. If you do not have a quarterback that helps the team more than he hurts it, someone needs to get fired.

    If Simms does not start this year in a meaningful game, I would not be content with a competition between Smith and Simms next summer. If Geno continues his horrible play, then you must bring in a veteran in the offseason, someone for whom you are likely to pay a large amount. I would like to know what my status quo is before I invest that heavily into an outsider. I am not willing to give Simms much breathing room: he must earn the right to compete next year. But he cannot earn that right if he is never given a shot this year. If this is a rebuilding year, wouldn’t you want to know what you have with both of your inexperienced quarterbacks?

    Baltimore would be a bad first start for Simms (away game against an opponent that you want to beat), but if we lose in Baltimore, we drop to 5-6 with five games left and 2-6 in the conference, and we would be pretty much out of the running with the Titans, the Ravens, and the Steelers all holding tie-breakers over us. We could let Simms start against Miami or against Oakland (everyone we face for the rest of the year is in the hunt for that final wildcard spot with the exception of the Panthers). For Geno to keep his starting job, he needs to show in Baltimore something other than his talented hand-offs to the tailback to make a case for himself.

  • Steve

    “Smith is not playing at Geno’s Level”

    Really.. REALLY ^!#*%*@#%$ REALLY!!!!!!!

    Who the #### let Geno get run over by a Mack truck on the 1st pass play….

    You want to see if anyone is good at their job for a day – Well, I suggest you don’t damn near end his career and Blast him with 340lbs to the gutt to start….

    IMO that 1 play set the tone of the game….
    I don’t think too many top QB’s take a helmet like that and get Smacked all game and play well…

    Like I said above.. Step Back – this is a REBUILD.. Exactly what I wanted!!!!!

    Idzik ain’t flinching for this crybaby shit – He’s going to Bring Geno back with competition and some weapons / better OL and THEN analyze a QB like you should….

    This TEAM has a ton of Building and rebuilding before it’s anywhere near succumbing to couch QB experts.

  • Steve

    “Your team has most of the pieces a Super Bowl contender would want.”

    Still reading….LOLOLOL Are you serious>?

    Jets need OL, WR, TE, OLB, CB…
    They are going to go through a Big personel turnover this offseason…

    You’re living in some dream world far away from what Idzik or any GM would be thinking…

    I said REBUILD when Ed Reed came on – He’s was dirt cheap and a bone for the coach but, NOTHINGto change the course of building a Contender… Not in the least.

  • paul

    @ KASH @ Steve @Jude
    Thank You!! well said.

    Some of the blame should fall on Rex or MM play calling or game planning. Smith holding the ball to long plus o line not giving him enough time the end results will be the same every time. The Jets were unprepared and didn’t come out hungry and this is why the JETS are labeled SOJ. The blame starts at the top Jets had no business taking a week off, instead of preparing or game planning they didn’t and it showed. They should have taken time off the field, not in the film room or game strategy. Until the Jets get a coach like Harbough or BB that takes no BS from players and prepares like crazy they will continue to be the SOJ. I like Rex and think he is a decent coach but there is always an issue when it’s a big game or a chance to pull into first place or gain ground on NE. As a Jets fan I should not be surprised but eventually patience will run out of Smith and Rex and players who are under performing. This is a win now league and opportunities do not come often for the Jets. Looking back at the Sanchez era, the Jets had an opportunity to do something special 2009,2010. It’s a shame things were not handled correctly with woody and co. I hope to see a SB sometime in my life time with the Jets dominating in every facet of the game, but this is not any time soon. Good luck Jets hope you prove me wrong. SOJ Fan (sigh)

  • KAsh


    When are conditions ever perfect for an evaluation? There is always some excuse – you should know, you have a lot of them.

    You can evaluate Geno now. When you overthrow the receiver by twice his height, the receiver is not going to catch the ball even if he is Calvin Johnson. When you operate out of an empty set and the defense rushes six, your five linemen will not be able to hold off everyone for more than a second; you need to make a quick read and throw. When you throw the ball directly at the opposing secondary, so that the player does not even move one inch to catch the interception, you are suffering from tunnel vision and should ask the coaches to sit you down.

    Last year, a team with an average offense and an average defense won the Super Bowl. The Ravens were the poster child for mediocrity, as they had #16 rankings in more categories than any other team in the league that year. But they were average all around: playmakers at all levels of the defense alongside below average players, an average rushing attack, and an average passing attack, which all made for a balanced team. This team is balanced, too, with the exception of one position.

    And I do not understand the Great Rebuild idea. So when Geno bombs then, are you going to go back to the “he had no continuity; they got rid of all the guys he had built chemistry with” excuse?

  • Steve


    When are conditions ever perfect for an evaluation? There is always some excuse – you should know, you have a lot of them.”

    When?? – In Year TWO of a rebuild… Just like in Seattle…

    You Build the offense – get Weapons and better protection and let geno compete with the next guy up…

    THAT is what’s going to happen… Idzik is at College games scouring the FA market and looking to BUILD a Good team…

    It’s Bigger than Evaluating GENO… It’s evaluating and Buildinga whole team… Geno is just a guy….

    A Guy I wanted for well over a year but, a cheap guy who can lose the QB battle next year for sure But, You MUST be able to evaluate a QB with a better cast than this…

    people just don’t get what REBUILD means and what it means to have a competent GM Rip down and BUILD a TEAM the right way..

    This team is going to get Shhredded this offseason – I’m gonna LOVE it…

    Then with a New TE/WR and OL help the rest of you whiny babies are all going to line up behind be and talk about how the Jets in year 2 of a REBUILD should win 12 games…

    Settle down, this has just begun.

  • KAsh

    Oh, you saw Geno’s games in college and wanted him. I see.

  • mark

    wow Jet Nation is fired up! One more day of cannibalizing each other and we can look to Baltimore.

    This is way better than being 2-8.

  • mike

    I love the jets, but we really have some of the worst fans in the league.
    support the team you jerks. stop undermining every player on the roster because you think it makes you look smart. it doesn’t. It makes you look like a petulant child who can’t handle the slightest bit of adversity. you know, kind of like you accuse geno of being.

  • Steve

    Umm yeah, I watch a lot of college ball… Like Idzik…

    NFL players tend to come from there.

    My point was that as much as I liked Geno I also understand todays NFL and why and how this team is far from tied to him or tied down by him….

    Build the TEAM, if Geno isn’t the guy then fine… Like Seattle you move on.

    But, no matter who is playing QB, this TEAM isn’t Championship level without legit Weapons and protection… Let alone Pass rush from other than DL, CB’s and Safeties.

    Funny how when our DL did to Great QB’s like Brady and Brees what just happened to Geno.. THEY LOST, Unbelievable huh?….We Beat Great QB’s just like these Defenses Beat our ROOKIE with less weapons.. Amazing huh?????

    And YES, Buffalo is a very talented Defense that can do to us what we did to HOF QB’s…

    Accepting that will help you grasp how much help this entire team needs and where we are in this infancy of a REBUILD

  • Nikolas

    This is still a very young team. In every play you will find a young player out of position, asking your self what the hell is he doing there? But there is enough talent and coaching to get to us some wins.

    I also suspect that – in the three blow out loses – Cincy, Memphis and Bills seemed to have the Jets play-book.

    Brady and Brees had no idea how to handle the Jets defense but E.J Manuel and Dalton did? Give me a break!

  • KAsh

    I’ve also seen Geno’s full college tape. Multiple games, multiple times. At #39, OK, but I was praying someone else would pick him before then.

  • Drew


    I am not completely sold on Geno, but asking for Simms isn’t addressing the probem. Simms threw a pass that hit McKelvin right in the numbers at the end of the game. Even EJ Manual’s first touchdown was a pass that got blown in the wind and 90% of the time would get intercepted. These young qbs make mistakes.

    This team lacks weapons. Look at Matt Ryan after the loss of Julio and the injury to Roddy White. Where does he throw on third and seven now?

    What would Stafford be without Calvin to take a quick slant 74 yards for a touchdown a couple times a game?

    When Colston and Graham get hurt, how can Brees lead a 4th quarter comeback?

    I am not saying that we need a top 5 wr for Geno to be good. I just want a talented guy who can build chemistry with Geno. Brady has Gronk, Luck had Wayne. Geno has Kerley? Holmes? Greg Salas?

    First round pick in 2014 needs to be the best offensive player available, not necessarily a QB. I am not saying Geno is the answer, but I am saying that we will not find the answer until we provide a qb with a supporting cast.

  • twoshady18

    “or trade for somebody like Jay Cutler”

    reading that made me throw up in my mouth a little bit.

  • Johnny

    The issue with the Jets from an offensive standpoint right now is not as much geno as it is their offensive line. They need to give him time to drop back and find an open receiver. When he has been given time, he has been pretty solid. That is the key, not changing QBs. If we go to another QB, we will just have the same problem.

  • Angel


    We need to have an intervention here. There is a reason you are getting so much blow-back on your Geno analysis… because it isn’t analysis, it’s all excuses and Pollyanna infatuation.

    Maybe this is Karma from you calling for Pennington to be benched and Kellen Clemons to take over. Maybe this has become a habit — a knee-jerk reaction from defending Sanchez and the irrational hate he received.

    The truth is, there is nothing wrong with saying Geno sucks. Why? Cause his play has sucked so far, that’s why. BUT, there is also nothing wrong with you calling for patience and saying you really like the guy.

    Personally, I wouldn’t call for his benching either — until he fumbles or throws that first interception, then I bench his ass and put in the Simms kid. Geno needs a quick hook. How can you argue against that?

    Also, you really have to address your irrational hate for Matt Simms. The kid has “IT.” No joke. And you could potentially be eating crow when he shows IT in the future. Meanwhile, Geno could go the way of Akili Smith… or Kellen Clemens.

  • David

    I think the biggest reason people are calling for a “quick hook” is because the QB play is exactly the same as it has been the past 4 years with Mark Sanchez– Poor throws, turnovers galore, etc.

    In 5 years under Rex Ryan, the Jets have spent the #5 overall and #39 overall picks on QB and they are no better off than they were before. It seems to me some of these teams like Indy, Washington, Seattle can get things right with their QB situations and quickly, so why can’t the NY Jets? Are their weapons really that much better than the Jets?

  • KAsh

    @Drew – I am not asking for Simms. I am asking to bench Geno. I am shooting down ridiculous anti-Simms arguments. Simms almost threw an interception? Well, gee, let’s start counting all the Geno almost interceptions. Let’s expand that and start counting Geno’s almost-touchdowns. Hey, he is starting to look like God under center.

    And if I recall the pass you are talking about correctly, it got tipped at the line, which gave it a lower arc. The original trajectory would have hit Hill in the hands at the back of the endzone.

    Finally, some QBs make their receivers better, other QBs rely on their receivers to play well. Brady goes to the playoffs each year throwing to guys they sign off the street. Brees throws to everyone on his roster. The Denver Broncos receivers are talented, but that offense would not be half of what it is without Peyton. These three guys, and a few others in the league, have made their receivers’ careers. Then there is Mike Glennon. He has 11 TDs, six in his last four games. And the interesting thing is that Vincent Jackson, his leading receiver, has only one of those six. In Glennon, you have a rookie QB drafted a whole round after Geno that is managing to find players in the end zone just fine. He has a TD pass to a backup OT.

    So please stop saying Geno has no one to throw to. The fact of the matter is that he has been missing his receivers on the throws he makes. So I get a bad taste in my mouth whenever anyone says “we must get Geno weapons” or “we must draft the best skill player” because Geno has not shown an ability to use them. It is called throwing pearls to swine.


    I do not keep track of such stats, so I do not know where to find the exact ones, but according to PFF, Geno has something like a 70% completion rate when he throws after three seconds or less. When given time, he generally throws incompletions.

    I did find this summary from PFF of the offensive line through week 11: “They do a good job of giving their quarterback time, but they don’t do a good job of opening up the kind of running lanes their backs need on a consistent basis.”

  • Lidman

    I don’t always agree with Joe. However, I have to agree with him on one point: for all the Geno critics, on this board, if you have the ability, after 10 NFL games, to make, with certainty, an accurate prediction of Geno Smith’s career, you should start applying for jobs in the NFL.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, based on how they see things. But, what in God’s name is an ‘IT’ factor? And, if you’re not around a guy, don’t see him practice and only see him in game action once a week, how can you make a call on that, after 10 games?

    Does Eli Manning have an ‘IT’ factor? He started 7 games as a rookie, went 1-6 and threw 6 TDs and 9 INTs. The year he won his first SB MVP he lead the NFL in INTs. And, if it weren’t for Mark Sanchez, he would have had the mose TOs, in the NFL, from ’09-’12.

    Does Matthew Stafford have the ‘IT’ factor? In his first 2 yrs, he started 13 games, went 3-10, threw 19TDs v 21 INTs and had 6 fumbles. Oh, and he had Calvin Johnson to throw to. He’s played in 1 playoff game.

    As far as him being a ‘game manager’, he is 16th best in yards/attempt. Ahead of Eli, Ryan, Luck, Brady and Flacco (3 SB MVPs) and 7th in yards/completion, right in front of P Manning and Brees. So, I don’t get that criticism. He is also tied, w/Russell Wilson, with 4 GW drives this season.

    He’s had 3 absolutely brutal games: @Tennesee, @Cincy and @Buffalo. In each of their wins he’s made big plays:
    TB: throws a strike to Winslow, then tucks the ball and puts himself into position to get the penalty. Hey, if he just makes a throw down field, he never gets hit.
    Buffalo: after the defense tried to give the Bills the game, he came back and made a big throw to Holmes.
    Atlanta: He played a near perfect game, and w/1:54 left went 4/4, 37yds and 8yds rushing, to get the game winning FG.
    NE: Down 21-17, put them ahead with a 56yd drive. He threw for 27 and ran for 22, including the 8yd TD.
    NO: Makes the big TD run to put them ahead.

    I don’t get it. My minimal observations don’t tell me this guy will be an upper echelon QB, but they do tell me he has the ability to make any throw and he can handle the successfully handle the pressure of a late game drive. Yes, he’s made some poor decisions. Yes, he’s looked lost, at times. I won’t even discuss the personnel around him. I’ll just ask how Tom Brady looked until Gronk came back and he had to play with a very inexperienced group of WR.

    To Joe’s point, if Geno is the reason the NYJ fail to make the playoffs, they’ll be a QB competition, one in which I’m sure Simms will get to be a part of, next Summer. I know Geno Smith can win NFL games, because he has. I don’t know that Matt Simms can. If they give him a chance, and he bombs that’s one game they may have given away.

  • Lidman

    Kash..what those PFF stats are telling you is this: Geno is not getting through his progressions. That is the biggest adjustment for any young QB. It’s normal.

  • KAsh


    I would like to say something like “stats don’t tell me anything; it is all about the story, the context, you come up with alongside the stats” but that misses the point. I actually agree with you – Geno is not going through his reads, but Cam Newton is in his third year and has only now started going to his third read. But it also tells me that Geno might have more success if he just lets the ball go. He might not be trusting himself or his reads right now.

  • mike

    kash you are a deeply irritating commenter, and while you are quite confident in your knowledge of everything, you are also wrong very often, as you are here.
    I won’t even bother explaining why Simms isn’t an option, only stupid jet fans think he’s a potential nfl starter. NO ONE ELSE WOULD PUT HIM ON THE FIELD AT ALL!
    just shut up, root for the team, or get out of the damn stadium.

  • BubbaGump

    Very reasonable of you Mike. That was a detailed well-reasoned argument awash with facts and analysis to support your theory.

    I’d like to see TOTJ actually be unbiased on this Geno vs Simms argument that’s taking place among the fan base by breaking down video and show us what these guys are doing right and wrong.

    Here’s an easy start: Simms gets rid of the ball within 3 seconds almost every time. Geno rarely gets rid of the ball within 3 seconds.

    Quite easy to illustrate or disprove by analyzing the tape. While Geno may have more upside, he’s hamstringing the team right now by not being able to get rid of the ball quickly enough.

    Not only that, when he’s facing a lot of pressure throughout a game, he makes no adjustments to speed up his internal clock.

    Given Geno’s speed, I’m pretty sure most of us would be just fine with him taking off after 3 seconds if he hasn’t found anyone open… he could gain a couple yards with his legs or he could escape the pocket and buy more time.

  • Lidman

    It tells you that, but it also tells you before he can get to the 2nd and 3rd read, the pocket is closing much more than he is used too. Having 300+lb monsters running right for you has to be a bit unsettling.

    If ‘stats don’t tell you anything’, then I can’t really argue with you. Numbers very rarely lie. Your reference to Cam is a good one. One big difference: when Cam’s intial 1st reads weren’t there, he took off, and gained positive yards. I’d love to see Geno do more of that. I think half of his sacks could have been avoided. 2nd/3rd and 10+ yds is a killer on any QB, let alone one who takes too much time. I’m not in his head, so I don’t know what he does or doesn’t trust. I don’t know what he ‘feels’. I don’t know if he sees/recognizes coverages. I actually believe, many of his INTs, appear to be tough throws, he forces into tight coverage. If I were guessing, I think the problem is simply the speed of the game. In the NFL he has to make so many more anticipatory throws than he ever did in college. ‘Open’ is 1 step. ‘Wide Open’ is anything more than that. So, if his primary option has 1 step, and he’s waiting for that to become ‘more open’, it’s costing him time. But, again, I don’t know that for sure.

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  • KAsh

    Geno does not really have the moxie to be a true dual-threat quarterback. From his interviews, especially when his agents were hyping him up for the draft, I think Geno likes things coordinated. A dual-threat runner needs to enjoy chaos quite a bit.

  • Joe Caporoso


  • John C

    Here’s one simple way I look at Simms – Simms, in pre-season, and his brief appearances in mop up, has thrown almost 90 passes (with about 70% completions), and run, I would estimate, about 120 plays, and has yet to have a turnover. He has thrown long, short, middle and crossing routes – he has thrown on the move, and into tight windows. He has scrambled for 1st downs, , and eluded pressure in the pocket. He may have fumbled (and recovered) once, and he may have 3 “almost” interceptions.

    I don’t care what the competition was, or if it was mop up duty, or anything else – bottom line, Simms has done everything better and more consistently than Smith.

    As a couple others have said, at the very least, it is time for a quick hook in a game. If Geno has two turnovers in the first half at Baltimore, he should be pulled before it gets worse. At this point, with the history that shows that Geno does not get better after turnovers, the Jets coaching staff would be derelict in their duties if they leave him in if he starts poorly. We need to know if we can have a real QB controversy next year – and the only way to do that, is to see what Simms can do when it counts, and there’s no reason to wait for Geno to “Pick 6” us out of playoff contention, before that happens.

  • John C

    p.s. – Even Rex is not willing to totally dismiss the idea that Geno could be benched, and admitted they might consider giving him some first string reps in practice.

  • KAsh


    Do you think Geno is a dual-threat at QB?

    You were probably watching the Patriots-Panthers game and saw Cam Newton change a sack with a loss of ten yards into a crazy fourteen yard gain by dodging four defensive linemen. If Geno was in the same situation, do you think he would attempt to run or to throw the ball away? Running requires a gamble; Cam needed to run backwards before he could run forwards.

    If you look at all the dual-threat quarterbacks in the league and in college (Vick, RG3, Kaepernick, Wilson, Manuel, Pryor, Manziel, Mariota), a profile starts to emerge: decisive, self-assured, charismatic, and unconventional. Dual-threat quarterbacks resemble sociopaths in that sense. They are more willing to take a loss, if it also comes with a chance to pull off a bigger gain. They put themselves in harm’s way more willingly. They react instantaneously to pressure and make quick decisions on the fly.

    None of this describes Geno. He can gain some yards with his legs once in a while, but he is not far from Sanchez in this aspect of the game.

  • Lidman

    “Geno does not really have the moxie to be a true dual-threat quarterback. From his interviews, especially when his agents were hyping him up for the draft, I think Geno likes things coordinated. A dual-threat runner needs to enjoy chaos quite a bit.”

    Is the sky blue in your world? Unless you have a personal relationship, with Geno Smith, how do you know what his ‘moxie’ is?

    I think his 2 TD runs v NE and NO show quite a bit of ‘moxie’. In fact, David Lee criticized the NO run, because he believed Geno misread the lineman and he should have handed off.

    As far as liking things ‘coordinated’, here is something his own coach said after NO: ”
    “At the end of the game there’s times he’ll leave the game plan and do too much, do things on his own, which we’ve had hard talks about that,” Lee said.”

    It’s football, not rocket science…less is more.